I wanted to direct people to my brand-spankin’-new blogg which will be similar to this one though.  We can still continue to post coments to this blogg if there were still on-going conversations, but my new postings I will be posting onto my very own blogg, so make you sure that you check this out:

http://weinlandwitnessing.wordpress.com

Aaron Robinson

The Presumptuousness Vs. Assumptuousness of God’s prophets

One of the very many reasons why people don’t want to accept Mr. Weinland as being one of God’s prophets is the fact that the 2nd Trumpet of Revelation was not blown within the time-frame that he had originally spoken to us.  One part of this is that Mr. Weinland stated that he was in no way being presumptuous in his thinking, and so thus was not sinfull.  The very heart and soul of prophethood and false-prophethood can be found in this following verse:

Deuteronomy 18:22  “When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.”

I bolded a very important part of this verse, because without this, every prophet that would ever claim to be a prophet of God would otherwise have to be discounted, but however, God will indeed allow for His prophet to speak something that He did not command for Him to speak, but under the condition that the prophet is not speaking presumptuously.  This verse states that if the thing which was prophecied does not happen BUT he spoke the prophecy presumptuously, then thou shall not be afraid of him (in other words, he would have to be deemed a false prophet).

Now, what does speaking presumptuously really actually mean ?  Well, there is a very stark difference between speaking presumptuously and assumptuously.  When somebody speaks presumptuously, that person is presuming (speculating) certain conditions or other thoughts in order to arrive at their final conclusion on something, and their speculations might involve believing in things which are OTHER than what was previously taught to them .  When somebody speaks assumptuously, that person is speaking things that are based upon the beliefs that they have been taught to them.

Having said this, Mr. Weinland was not speaking presumptuously through the speculation of other beliefs, but rather he was deriving his conclusion of what the time-frame was through the beliefs that God’s Church had been believing for many many decades.  Now, as we have seen with so very many of the truths of God, there is much revelation that God gives to His servants and thus to His Church, His body of Christ, as without this revelation, God’s Church would become stagnated and would become lukewarm, complacent, and lethargic in truth and in spirit, and when this ocurred in God’s Church, God separated Himself (cut Himself off from) His body of Christ, He spewed them out of His mouth, vomitted him out of His mouth because God does not dwell in lukewarmness, and then God began calling back a remnant into a single unified church body.

If it wasn’t for God’s Church having believed that Jesus Christ would be returning on the Feast Of Trumpets, then Mr. Weinland would indeed be a false prophet because he wouldn’t be basing his spoken words from his faith in his beliefs.  Mr. Weinland was basing his beliefs ONLY upon what his beliefs already were, and he did not once stray away from that before God gave him revelation as to the true timing for the return of Jesus Christ on the day of Pentecost.  God judges His people based ONLY on the understand that they have been given through His revelation to them, because any other judgement executed upon them based on any understanding that God had not yet given to them would not be mercifull on God’s part.  So thus, God judges Mr. Weinland based SOLELY upon what God has revealed to Him.  Since God’s Church had believed that Jesus Christ would be returning on the Feast Of Trumpets (before the revelation of the 50th Truth), that is what God would be using to judge His people.  According to the Scriptures, God would have to be judging whether or not they are wavering in their faith, as THAT is the true test of prophets, because should they go straying away from their beliefs in order to speculate about something that wasn’t revealed to them through revelation from God, then they are being presumptuous and therefore would be false prophets.

Since Mr. Weinland was having 100% faith in the beliefs that God’s Church had at that time, Mr. Weinland was not speaking presumptuously, but was only speaking assumptuously, when he stated that April 17th, 2008 would be and was the blowing of the 1st Trumpet of Revelation.  If we have a problem with why it is that God chose to not give His revelation for the timing for the return of Jesus Christ much sooner, than we need to be praying to Him and asking this of Him, not of Mr. Weinland, because God is in full control of what he reveals and when he reveals, God’s servants have no control at all whatsoever over those revelations, and so thus, until further revelation is given, they must hold fast onto what they have been believing until revelation changes those beliefs.  Most of the level-headed individuals that now deem Mr. Weinland to be a false prophet because of the timing issue did not express their concern that Mr. Armstrong might have been a false apostle when he had to change things based upon revelation from, and such an instance of this would be when God had revealed to His Church that they were not to be keeping Pentecost on a Monday, but rather they should be keeping it on a Sunday, and that was purely revelation from God, and as God’s apostle in God’s Church, that revelation from God gave Mr. Armstrong the authority to fine-tune the doctrine that they had very much long believed.  People today understood it much much more than many in God’s Church understood it back during that time, but now that one of God’s prophets had spoken something that was based solely upon the long-held beliefs in God’s Church, we want to immediately deem Mr. Weinland to be a false prophet.  If God would only judge His people based ONLY upon what God has given to them thus so far, then we must not judge anymore differently than that.  There are so many other instances where God’s apostles and prophets had to change or fine-tune their doctrines because God had revealed to them the deeper spiritual meaning behind the Scriptures contained within the Bible, and that is the ONLY means by which God’s Church, the body of Christ, can grow both in truth and in spirit, through the progressive revelation from God to His servants and thus to His Church.  That is how God had worked back during those times, and there is thus so far no reason at all whatsoever to believe that God is working any differently right here right now.

Now, please remember that I am not one whom can get you to see the truths of God, because God and God alone is the one whom can open-up somebody’s mind to be able to see the light of His truth, no human-being dead or alive can be successfull for in such an accomplishment.  But all I can do is just hope and pray that this message will have been enough of an inspiration for you to sincerely and genuinely pray to God and pour your heart out to Him and pray for Him to give you only the truth, no matter what that truth may be.  If I am speaking falsely, or if Mr. Weinland has been speaking falsely, or if Mr. Armstrong had been speaking falsely, then pray to God to reveal this to you, but just pray to our Eternal God the Father that He reveal what is of the truth to you.  As long as you have adopted a humble spirit of humility for desiring the real truths of God, then he will bring you into the light of His powerfull truth, whatever that real truth would so happen to be.

Now, I will say right here right now that if Mr. Weinland should so ever state anything (without powerfull revelation from God) that is based upon anything else other than what God’s Church believes, then I shall deem him to be a false prophet.  Had God’s Church already believed that Jesus Christ would be returning on Pentecost, or had there been no further revelation  regarding the timing, then Mr. Weinland would most assuredly be a false prophet and I would have had no problem stating this as such, but I have not yet found this to be the case because God’s prophet is only speaking things which are based upon what God’s Church believes until God otherwise corrects them in their tracks.  God had not corrected them for a very long while about the true timing for the return of Jesus Christ, and this waiting was for very great purposes that only God can help us to understand, as no manner of intellect or intelligence can help anybody at all whatsoever to understand God and the truths of God, it takes help from God, this is the only only manner of this occurring.  We need to pray to God and ask him to help us to spiritually see more deeply into a certain matter, instead of relying upon our own intelligence and intellect by seeing something purely in a physical light, because God is spirit, and so thus he works spiritually, he doesn’t work physically, his mind works spiritually, and since we are only physical human-beings, we need God to us the power of His Holy Spirit for us to be able to think spiritually, that is the only manner in which we can think like God thinks.

I love all of you no matter what, no matter if you believe in these words or not, as we each and every one of us is commanded to love our God, to love our neighbors, and even to love our enemies regardless of and no matter what evils they might be committing or have committed in the past.  This is why God states in the New Testament that we are to hang ALL of His Laws upon the Laws of loving God and loving your neighbors, because the first 4 commandments regard loving God, and the last 6 commandments regard loving your neighbors.  God saying that all of the Law is hung upon the Law of love is NOT saying that the Law is done away with and that we only have to act nice towards each one another, no, that is most certainly quite the contrary, because the very following of those commandments is what hanging those Laws upon the 2 Laws of love because all of the 10 Commandments from God stem from those 2 Laws of love, so thus, the Laws of love in the New Testament are what FULLFILLS the 10 Commandments, it does NOT in ANY way, shape, fashion, or form, make one jot or one tittle pass away from the Law, and such will not be the case until the heavens and the Earth pass away, just as it was stated by our Eternal God the Father’s only begotten Son Jesus Christ, the Messiah for mankind.

Aaron Robinson

God’s Timing Vs. Mr. Weinland’s Timing

Hi everybody…  My first “meaty” posting onto The Weinland Witness will be of the biggest nagging controversy that both believers and non-believers alike have been struggling with, believers struggling because they’re trying to get the non-believers to grasp and understand why the timing has been the way that is has, and non-believers struggling because they’re trying to get the believers to understand why Mr. Weinland is already a false-prophet end-of-story.  Both sides of this equation can be quite very compelling as well as frustrating because we all would like for each other to understand and believe what we’re saying, now wouldn’t we ?  I am beginning with this subject of timing because this stands at the crux between people believing or not believing Mr. Weinland’s prophethood from God.

On the surface of this issue, it would seem to be very understandable why Mr. Weinland has been deemed as a false prophet by so very many persons, because the events that he wrote about did not come to pass during the time-frame which he had originally given.   If this was all I was examining, then I too would deem him as a false prophet, but more should be examined to judge the whole entire picture of this.  After examining this bigger picture, it is still up to each and every one of us as to what we decide about Mr. Weinland.  I am not here to push my beliefs upon any of you, because I cannot have anybody believe me anyhow, as only God has the ability of opening-up somebody’s mind to bring them to the light of His truth, no human-being has the power to do this, although some will receive the words from believers and will cause their minds to be sparked whereby they desire to examine things more and more further and God opens their mind more and more through the power of His Holy Spirit.  I am only here to try imparting both sides of the issues, for both believers and non-believers alike, in as fair of a manner as is possible for me.

It is very understandable why people would discount Mr. Weinland as being God’s prophet when his original time-frame was changed, I mean even I slightly hesitated and at least thought that maybe possibly he was wrong, but there is just too much power in everything else that he has said, so many doctrinal things that make perfect sense regarding the Bible, and the actual timing from the 50th Truth, tying it with the judgement of the Man Of Sin, of Satan, and of mankind, and the revelation just keeps on coming and coming.

One of the first things that I should talk about is the issue of whether or not God would allow His prophet(s) t0 be in error.  One thing that we should remember is that we must adopt a humble spirit of humility, because God works with that kind of mind, one that has been humbled and has a lack of pride.  With that, we have to understand the possibility that God is working in a manner that is not understood, the possibility that He does what He does for great purposes.  The actual time-line for future events to occur has not changed, it was always gonig to be the current time-line, but Mr. Weinland did not have the full understanding of the actual time-line because God had not yet revealed the truth regarding the timing for the return of Jesus Christ, which is what Mr. Weinland was using to derive his first time-frame, because God’s Church had long believed that Jesus Christ would be returning on the Feast Of Trumpets, but it wasn’t until after Mr. Weinland had already given his original time-frame (through what he had thought to be the truth in God’s Church for decades) that God revealed that Jesus Christ would be returning on Pentecost, on the very day that has always symbolized God’s first-fruits in God’s Kingdom.

Now, if God’s revelation of this timing was withheld, then we have to take our issues to God and not to Mr. Weinland, although there is no way to prove that this timing was indeed withheld, but there are so many great purposes for why God would do this:

#1.  There is so much spiritual warefare being waged out here, the likes of which we cannot yet comprehend.  So much battle between the righteous angels and the fallen angels (demons), and if God had revealed the 50th Truth much earlier, like by a year or 2, then Satan and his demons would have had more of God’s truth with which to use as weapons in their warfare against mankind.

#2.  The withholding of the 50th Truth until later gives God’s Church greater humility through persecution, ridiculing, or whatever you wanna call it.  Now, I’m not saying that people ridiculing are horrible because of this, because it’s understandable that somebody would reject God’s prophet due to the stated timing not being correct, but God’s withholding of the actual timing allows for greater humility of His prophet and of His Church, and humiility is a very great lesson that God teaches to us in various manners.

#3.  God’s revelation of this timing would further separate His Church from the scattered Church, as well as from the rest of the World, by showing that God continues to give revelations of truth, even if something was stated by God’s prophet that was thought to be truth in God’s Church.  One huge instance of this is when Mr. Armstrong had received revelation from God that Pentecost was not to be kept on a Monday but instead on a Sunday, as Monday was long believed to be the truth in Gods Church, and everything they did centered around what they believed to be the truth, until God showed them what the truth was.  Did this prove to us that Mr. Armstrong was a false apostle ?  Most all of the people whom believed in Mr. Weinland before the timing issue could grasp and understand God giving revelation of the truth about Pentecost to Mr. Armstrong, even after believing for decades and possibly even for centuries that Pentecost was to be kept on a Monday.  So thus, if God would withhold His truth until His perfect timing to reveal it to His servants like Mr. Armstrong, then why would it be so far-fetched for God to do this with His prophet for the 50th Truth which had much to do with the timing for the return of Jesus Christ ?

We should be taking-up our issue with God if we cannot understand why He would withhold such important truth until after Mr. Weinland had already given the time-frame that he believed to be true ?  God only judges us with what we have been given, much just like Moses, and Abraham, and all of the apostles and prophets throughout all of the ages of mankind, they were only judged based upon what was revealed to them through God, and they were given so much less than Peter and Paul and John were given, but yet God only judged them based upon what had been given to them, not based on what was withheld from them.  It is God’s nature to not reveal everything at once, and it is us human-beings that perceive that it would have been better to reveal the timing for the 50th Truth much earlier thn it indeed was, but we don’t have God’s mind, we cannot know when God will reveal more truth to His Church.  The withholding of the truths regarding timing is no different than withholding truths regarding doctrine.  This further shows that God’s revelation is a progressive revelation and not an instant revelation for all things at once.  Now, whether Mr. Weinland is true or not, we need to be praying to God and humbly, sincerely, and genuinely asking him to show you what the truth is, to give you greater understanding of what His real truth is and why he reveals His truths in the manner in which He does, because only through being humble about your desire for the truth will actually bring you to the truth.  If you desire the truth more so that you can say you were right, or just to be saved, then that is not a good reason to desire the truth.  We should want God’s truths because we are zealously on-fire for God’s ways of living life and to learn about God’s mind and how God works.  No matter whether Mr. Weinland is correct or not, we need to be praying to God in this manner if we ever hope to come to the real truth regarding anything, and only God has the sword which can pierce the very deepest recesses of our minds, the great interpreter and discerner of our minds, and God knows more about our own thoughts and thinking than we do for ourselves, such mighty power that God says.

I can truly understand why people could look at this timing issue on the surface and automatically deem Mr. Weinland to be a false prophet, which is why I cannot be madd or angry at somebody whom doesn’t yet believe because God hasn’t given it to them yet (although the reason is probably because they haven’t sincerely prayed to God to receive what the truth really is).  Sometimes I ponder over whether I am following the wrong thing or not, and I think about this quite a bit because it would be bad to be following the wrong thing, but then I think back to my calling, and how powerfull it felt for me, how everything was finally making sense to me for the very first time in my whole entire life, the purpose for mankind even existing, and the actual manners in which God has been using to bring this about over the course of 6,000 years.  I also examine everything else which Mr. Weinland has been saying, and everything just makes so much sense to me, but this is just how I personally feel, and I understand that many of you don’t feel this way, and I can greatly respect that, because one that we can agree on is that God gives all of us choice, the choice of whether or not to believe with what he presents to us.

I even wrote to Mr. Weinland because one thing which concerned me was him saying that he would stop ministering and deem himself a false prophet if what he said did not come to pass.  Even though I still believed, ths was a thorn in my mind for quite a while, but then I pondered on the fact that once again Mr. Weinland was sounding so incredibly confident because of what he believed to be true about Christ and Trumpets, but he had no idea that revelation changing that belief was coming, and one of the things this does for God is gives him a witness that his servants will do based only on what they have been given, and I believe that this is precisely what Mr. Weinland did, because he didn’t know that there was further revelation coming, and so he very boldly stated a time-frame for April 17th, 2008 as the blowing of the 1st Trumpet, but little did he realize that God was going to be giving very powerfull revelation regarding the timing for the return of Jesus Christ, and unfortauntely for Mr. Weinland’s reputation, that did indeed call for him changing what he had originally stated regarding the original time-frame, much just like God’s revelation to Mr. Armstrong called for the changing of the doctrine from keeping Pentecost on a Monday to a Sunday.  We must judge God’s servants upon what has or had been given to them and what has or had not been given to them.  There is so much purpose that God had in not revealing the 50th Truth until later, and if we have an issue with that, we need to be taking it up with God, because if we are wrong about declaring Mr. Weinland to be a false prophet (meaning if Mr. Weinland is indeed real, true, and correct), then we need to seek greater understanding from the only being that can give it to us, and that one being is God, it is not Mr. Weinland’s truth, it is God’s truth.  The one thing which I will firmly stick to is that I will have been wrong if nothing yet happens by 2011, because that is the absolutely latest which the 2nd Trumpet could be blown for there to be enough time for the future events to come into fruition.

What I said here in this posting is not to say that I am right and everybody else is wrong, but I’m merely just trying to impart the reasoning behind why we shouldn’t yet declare Mr. Weinland to be a false prophet, because we might be going against the very manner in which God is working.  Maybe God didn’t withhold the 50th Truth back and Mr. Weinland is just a liar and a deceiver and a false prophet, but then I have to discount everything else that he has said which does seem to be of the truth upon examining the Bible.  Just think about this though, because had the 2nd Trumpet blown during Mr. Weinland’s 1st time-frame, then there would not be much ridicule or mocking of him, but the danger would be that then he and God’s Church might have gotten bragfull and say that they were right all along, and plus, God could also have been showing to His Church and to the World that even God’s prophet can speak something that wasn’t of the full power of God’s truth simply because God had not yet revealed the full truth.  This is a very very trying and testing issue, and I wish that this didn’t happen because it feels like it’s causing so much hardship, but I do believe that God has His reasons and His purposes for doing anything and everything that He does, and I pray that we be given further understanding as to the mysteries of how it is that God is working things out.  I mean, I didn’t hear many on-the-fencers talking about how Mr. Armstrong changed something in God’s Church due to revelation of truth from God, but only because it’s happening with timing that we all wanted to see come to pass are we not believing Mr. Weinland, and in a sense we are being a little selfish because we are then wanting to see the timing coming to pass for the wrong reasons.  If it’s in God’s purpose for the timing to be revealed at a specific moment in time, then this is God’s doing, and sometimes we cannot understand why God is doing things the way that he should be doing them.  People feel that God should not have withheld the truth about the Sunday Pentecost until 1974, why did God not reveal this truth so very long ago while they were not keeping the right day ?  It’s all in God’s perfect timing when He chooses to reveal things, and as long as God’s people are showing faith in everything that they have been given thus so far, that is what matters to God.  God is not concerned with whether or not we are following what He has not yet given to us.  Mr. Weinland gave his original time-frame based upon what God’s Church had believed for a very long time, and part of the timing for the revelation of the 50th Truth for June 2008 was to show that His Church is keeping their faith in what they believed to be the truth until God reveals the real truth to them.  I’ve heard many people saying that even if the 2nd Trumpet blows with nuclear detonations in port cities, that Mr. Weinland is sitll a false prophet because of the timing issue, and I know that some of you will feel that same way also, but we must be humble before God and pray to him for His great mercy to show you the truth because you want to know His ways, you want to live his way of life.

Whether or not Mr. Weinland is right or not, I am still so very incredibly excited in my life to have come to know God’s purpose and plan for mankind, why we are here, the reasons why he created us as physical human-beings with a carnal nature about ourselves, and why there was a rebellion in the Angelic-Realm, and why are there dinosaur fossills of hundreds of millions of years if mankind was only here for 6,000 years.  Everything that I have been learning is jut so very powerfull to me and it’s leaving me so very excited about everything.  My posting on here isn’t to prove to you what is correct or to prove to you that Mr. Weinland is not a false prophet, as I understand that I cannot do those things at all whatsoever, but I am trying to impart what we should be examining, and not just looking at the very surface of the timing issue.  We should be examining why the timing did not occur, why did God withhold that timing, and see the history of how God has worked in His Church, because he did the same thing with Mr. Armstrong regarding revelation of truth as He did with Mr. Weinland.  We should very easily be able to state that Mr. Armstrong was a false apostle if what he stated about various doctrine was not of the truth (which we wouldn’t even have known was not of the truth until God revealed the real truth), but the truth is that God has given revelation throughout the history of God’s Church, most powerfully in the beginning of God’s Church and in the Philadelphia and Laodicea eras.  The issue we have is that God did not reveal the 50th Truth sooner than we perceive would have been right, once again mankind saying that he knows better than God.  Now, this is not a personal attack on individuals, but this is just showing how mankind tends to think when things don’t seem right in their own minds, when it’s all about God’s mind and His purpose and timing in and for all things.

By the way, as I’ve been writing this today, there has been a major California Earth-Quake sequence that began with a 6.5 magnitude earth-quake, and has followed a 7.2 sequence near the Solomon Islands on 1/3/2010, and a 5.9 sequence in Baja California at the Volcano down there on 12/30/2009.  All 3 of these sequences have yielded many strong after-shocks, some being much worse than the previous after-shock, making some of them fore-shocks, so could something much bigger be coming ?  I don’t want to talk more about this now though because I will be discussing the 7 Thunders in another posting onto The Weinland Witnes, but I want the comments to this here particular posting to be about the issue of Mr. Weinland’s timing and what people are thinking regarding this matter, especially after what I have typed above.

I want everybody reading this to know that I love all of you, and even when sometimes that might be difficult, I know that God indeed desires for all of us to love each and every other human-being that has ever lived and died upon this Earth, even if we greatly disagree with each other, we are all bonded together by the love for our almighty Creator, our Eternal God, Yahweh Elohim (in the Hebrew language).  We are all bonded together by the persuit of truth, but how we go about that persuit of truth, and whether or not we are asking God for His help in this endeavor, will make all of the difference in the World in whether or not He gives each of us His truth.

Aaron Robinson

The Weinland Witness Adds A Contributor – Aaron R

As some of you have read on “The Weinland Witness”, I inquired of Citizen X if I could contribute to his web-site. Even though he had already officially declared Mr. Ronald Weinland to be a false prophet, many are still on the fence or remain believers that Mr. Weinland is one of God’s prophet and one of God’s 2 End-Time Witnesses.

Many of those who are still on the fence might feel confused because they feel that they had a very profound calling from God, and that so much of what Mr. Weinland said was making so many things regarding the world and the universe and the angelic realm and the Bible and the prophecies and various other events that people have wondered about all throughout the course of time.

Citizen X has granted me the privilege of being a contributor for “The Weinland Witness”, and just as he stated in his most recent comment, nothing will change. Many of the old standards still apply; discussion must be civil, and any that emerge with an ax to grind or a hidden agenda will not last long.

Regardless of whether or not Mr. Weinland is God’s prophet, nobody should be saying anything hateful towards him or any other human-being on the face of this Earth, because all of Gods creations are beautiful.

I will be writings some postings to The Weinland Witness over the next few days, and I would like to begin by stating something about myself, especially since striving to be godly entails cultivating honesty.  I do currently believe that Mr. Ronald Weinland is one of  God’s prophets, but I fully respect anybody whom does not believe this to be the case, and I know this includes many of you.

Many people who believe Mr. Weinland is a false prophet make the assumption that people who do believe are just deluding themselves and need to wake up.  They feel that there is nothing that can be said or done that will change the minds of those believers.

Even though I currently believe, this doesn’t mean that I don’t use discernment and sound judgment when it comes to matters of faith.  If something that Mr. Weinland says would seem iffy or off, then I would question it, but I’m not following anybody like some mindless zombie that doesn’t have a mind to discern certain various matters of my faith.

I will be posting my thoughts and comments with as much objectivity as I possibly can, and I will try my very level-headed best to be fair to anybody and everybody and to respect others thoughts, opinions, and ideas.

This is my position on Ronald Weinland:

If nothing occurs by the beginning of 2011, then I will know I’ve been wrong about who I thought he was, and if that occurs it’s quite possible that even Mr. Weinland himself believed that he was what he said that he was.

So for now, I am giving Mr. Weinland the benefit of the doubt in this matter because following prophets in these end-times is a very serious matter and should not be taken lightly – both with prematurely declaring him to be a false-prophet or holding-back when something doesn’t seem to be making sense.

In my postings to follow, I will be discussing the following issues:

• The timing of events – I will discussing what each side believes and objectively giving the point-of-view from both sides of whether Weinland is Gods prophet because of the events not coming to pass within his original time-frame, which goes at the very crux of whether or not somebody believes him.  One other thing which I will be addressing is his statements of the 45 – 90 Days and also addressing when he spoke of the possibility of the United States Of America not having a new President taking office in the White House.

• Mr. Weindland’s presumptuousness – This was something I’d thought a lot about when seeing how he stated everything, and I believe I can explain why he doesn’t believe that he was being presumptuous and therefore sinning before God over it.  Many commenters on this blog have said that they couldn’t understand why Ronald Weinland was not being presumptuous regarding the timing of events, so I will attempt to give some explanation of the matter.

• The 7 Thunders from the book of Revelation – There was quite a bit of rumbling from them in the year of 2009, more notably one of the Thunders that was giving me a very weird feeling because I instantly remembered this Thunder when I saw the manifestation of it being greatly magnified.

• Commentary and analysis on RW’s latest postings and sermons. In my opinion, these are getting more and more intriguing as time is passing by.

There will be other issues that I can make postings about if people are talking about them within their comments.

I will make a separate posting for each issue, so that it’s easier to keep track of which issues are being discussed.

Since some of Citizen X’s blog postings have seen 300+ comments to them on a variety of different topics and subjects, this might help with getting it more organized so that there aren’t so many different conversations occurring within the comments.

I hope that all of you had a pleasant holiday season thus so far, and are keeping close to your family and your friends, because if there is any message that I believe most agree with, it is that God’s Family is the purpose for all things.

Gods family is the purpose for all things, and it is so very awesome to realize what God has been doing with mankind and creating everything else that he has in his eternal existence.

I might write a posting sometime where I talk about this ultimate purpose for God’s family, because it really truly does indeed show God’s true spirit, his true mind, his lovingness, his giving, and his mercy in anything and everything.  God is my Rock and the foundation of all things, with his son Jesus Christ the chief cornerstone in his plan.

I love every one of you so very much, because we are all human beings created by God through the power of His Holy Spirit, and it is God that continues to sustain us, to sustain this Earth, and to sustain this whole entire Universe, even to sustain the angelic realm which we cannot yet see.

Aaron R

The Weinland Ending – Ronald Weinland and the Words of a Prophet

When Ronald Weinland first emerged on the scene sometime around early 2008, he was certainly a candidate for a prophet or witness. Although some of his biblical doctrine was rather different and unorthodox, he was a calm, mild-mannered man who spoke with a firm, unwavering confidence in his predictions. He was a biblical scholar who had authored several works. Although his beliefs on the Sabbath and tithing were certainly in the minority, he was no Jim Jones or wild-eyed fanatic. A rather quiet man with an unimposing nature, Weinland was a candidate for a prophet of God or one of the final witnesses foretold of in Revelation.

As a Christian who believes the Bible and knows the end of the world draws near, I filed Weinland away for future reference. God says to test the prophets, and by the fulfillment of their words we will know the measure of them.

God says this for a reason. For decades, if not centuries, men have risen claiming to be prophets or the final witnesses. Any man can make a claim to God’s spokesman. Although the followers of God are sometimes given gifts of discernment, prophesy, visions or tongues, God keeps the test simple; if their prophesies come to pass, they are confirmed as God’s spokesman and can be trusted.

The Weinland Witness was created in early 2008 to counter what was perceived as a vitriolic anti-Weinland fever sweeping the blogosphere. Even though there was no particular commitment to Weinland, it was clear that there was a sore need for rational discussion of R.W. and the larger topic of proclaimed prophets in today’s contemporary society. I’m not a writer, and have never created a blog before. There was no inherent desire on my part to undertake this project.

I created The Weinland Witness more out of a feeling of duty or sense of obligation than anything else. Any claim to prophethood must be taken seriously. The Bible is no laughing matter. Everything within it will come to pass, and all the words written in the Book must be considered weightily before coming to any hasty conclusions.

RW had several factors in his favor. In addition to the aforementioned civil and calm disposition, he offered his writings for free, manifested a supreme confidence, and had a firm, if sometimes unusual grasp of scripture. But that alone does not a prophet make. In all things, we must first be loyal to the One, to the Source of all power. Everything else comes afterwards. My allegiance is to God first, and man second.

When R. Weinland pre-emptively stated that he had possibly been ‘presumptuous’ and did not foresee the level of destruction occurring at the predicted time, I experienced a testing of the faith. On one hand, God’s word dictates fulfillment of prophesy as a necessary prerequisite to verification of prophethood. On the other hand, in matters of biblical prophesy one can never leave any uncertainty on the table – I could not 100% discount the possibility that RW was indeed a true prophet of God. Whether or not Weinland was a true prophet, God was asking more patience.

And so it was that I returned to my studies and let the passage of time determine Ronald Weinland’s validity. According to RW, the First Trumpet began on December 15th instead of in April. This brings us to where we stand today.

As of today, March 23rd, we have witnessed no mass deaths. There have been no events of truly large destruction. We have not seen the annihilation prophesied by Ronald Weinland. The First Trumpet has been blown, and yet we have not seen verification of Weinland’s words, a key requirement for true prophethood.

A theoretical shifting of prophesied events is certainly plausible, although such incidences occurring in the Bible are rare. God has many reasons for his actions – from teaching mankind lessons to using mankind for powerful testimonies. However, it now appears as if everything Ronald Weinland said was incorrect, from the timing of the First Trumpet to the actual nature of the Trumpet itself. I simply cannot accept that a prophet of God would utter such a vast pronouncement that had no basis in fact whatsoever. Regardless of whether God granted more time, or is trying to teach a lesson, it appears inconceivable that he would allow a representative of his to utter such a sweeping prediction that did not come true in any aspect or form. The God of the Bible would not do that, and one must remain true to him first – man comes second.

The Weinland Witness Statement of Discernment remains. Ronald Weinland’s time has come and gone. He is a false prophet. False prophets come and go, but God’s word remains. His word is the same today, yesterday and forever.

As has been said many times here, regardless of Weinland’s validity, the fact remains that we are in the End Times spoken of in Revelation. God is returning soon in all his glory to build his Kingdom on Earth. Do not allow false prophets to taint your biblical perspective or your faith, as that is precisely the goal of Satan and his designs. The Truth remains in all its constant glory. The two witnesses prophesied in Revelation will emerge, and we must remain vigilant for their introduction.

The Weinland Witness’ comment policy remains. Although I have now made a clear decision regarding Ronald Weinland’s validity, there are still many who remain unconvinced. My hope is that The Weinland Witness will provide a forum for discussion among them so that they may eventually see the light. It will remain open to Weinland-supporters and undecideds. Unfortunately, I cannot allow virulent anti-Weinlanders access because, as has happened so often in the past, the discussion degenerates into namecalling, insults flung back and forth, and an overall tone of incivility. This would not be conducive to the path I feel Weinland followers should take, which is one of gradual recognizance and acceptance of the Truth.

To those followers, I can empathize with you. You were with me from the beginning. I know that many of you simply share my hope that Jesus will return soon and that the words in the Bible be fulfilled. We want the same things. I do not condemn you. You know my heart. Unlike some, I have never had an agenda or pre-desired outcome. My decision was not made lightly, but only arrived at after much soul-searching and contemplation of biblical standards. Through this journey, I have come to understand your minds and know that you will not be convinced by angry retorts or snide remarks, nor do I expect you to. All that I ask is that you remain openminded. Put God’s Word first, and man second. Make sure your spirit is firstly aligned with the Word – then pledge allegiance to man.

The Weinland Judgment – Ronald Weinland and the Revealing of a Prophet

The time has come. We are about to witness the revealing of a prophet. The First Trumpet was blown on December 14th and has continued to blast throughout the following weeks, according to Ronald Weinland.

2008 – Gods Final Witness, page 118:

The First powerful event of the Seventh Seal(First Trumpet) will result in wide-spread destruction over the United States and beyond her border into Canada.

…a third of all plant life will be destroyed…

…the actual event will not be disclosed until it is time for it to happen..

..there will be much death when this event occurs..

Most of it will be the death of animals and birds, but also a large number of people will die – into the tens of thousands.

According to Ronald Weinland, the First Trumpet(December 14th) is a process that unfolds over 45-90 days. Therefore, the entire world should witness the destruction spoken of in 2008 – Gods Final Witness before March 15th if Ronald Weinland is truly a prophet of God and one of the two end-time witnesses spoken of in Revelation.

For many, 03/15 will come as a relief. The undecideds and open-minded people genuinely hungry for the truth have yearned for a resolution to this issue for quite some time now. While the Weinland-haters prattled on in their echo chambers, genuinely openminded folk thirsted for the truth.

Now that moment is come. We will soon know whether or not Ronald Weinland is a true or false prophet. The truth will speak for itself. Regardless of Weinland’s validity, however, it is clear what times we are living in. America’s economy teeters on the brink of collapse, while foreign nations and dictatorships make rumblings of war. Unrest has spread across the globe, from the U.K where police fear riots due to economic discontent, to Mexico, where border officials fearfully contemplate the possibility of a full-fledged collapse and massive refugee migration.

Nothing Ronald Weinland says can change the times we are in. God is, and has always been in control. He guides the affairs of all men. Whether or not Weinland is his instrument will be made evident in due time. Since Weinland’s emergence, there were those hasty fools who had not the patience or temperament to discern the truth. Instead, they made brash, ignorant statements, loudly proclaiming their foolish opinions to all who would listen. Some were motivated by bitterness, some by hatred, and others by mere deception and a desire to be accepted by parroting the ‘establishment’ line.

Everyone deserves a fair shot. Although there are reasonable, fairminded people that can disagree on whether or not the June 25th development constituted ‘unequivocal’ evidence of true or false prophethood, my position has always remained clear. The truth always makes itself clear. Eventually we will see the clear, absolute, undeniable truth. And that position has remained the same regardless.

The Weinland Witness Statement of Discernment:

If we witness a destructive event of such magnitude that it causes the deaths of tens of thousands of people and the death of a 1/3rd of all plant life before March 15, Ronald Weinland is a true prophet of God and one of the two witnesses spoken of in Revelation. If no such event occurs, he is not.

R.W.’s book is quite clear on the First Trumpet; it is a purely physical phenomenon resulting in the deaths of tens of thousands of people. This is something that will be quite evident on a global scale.

The Weinland Witness has not been popular with both sides, and has generally remained alone in its advocacy of a confirmationist viewpoint. Although the Weinland-haters are irrelevant and contribute nothing to the discussion, there have been genuinely openminded skeptics, such as Byron Harvey, who earnestly question whether or not the 6/25 development constitutes an unequivocal confirmation of failed prophecy.

Those on this side of the debate have questioned whether or not I was too lenient in my judgment. Conversely, there are those on the other side who are displeased with my ‘fence-sitting’ posture, as they characterize it, and say that my hesitation encourages others to do the same, in the process denying them salvation.

Both sides have implied that my hesitance in jumping to conclusions was due to a temerity or fearfulness on my part. Nothing could be further from the truth. The simple truth is this. In matters of such grave importance as biblical prophecy and determining God’s true messenger, nothing less than 100% certainty will suffice.

And yet regardless of your personal inclinations or allegiances, we are at the end of a road. We shall either experience global upheaval on a scale never before seen, or witness the unmasking of a charlatan. If it is the former, I shall dutifully chronicle what occurs and attempt to provide information to those hungry for it as long as I can. If it is the latter, I am not sure what there is left to say. I have said my piece. My perspective has become part of the Weinland debate, and that is all I really hoped for.

So all we are left with is time, and what is revealed by the passage of time. Everything else fades away, and the inexorable march of the clock determines our actions for the future. Will Ronald Weinland be one of the two witnesses destined to lead God’s people through the Tribulation, or will that honor be bestowed on another? Is he the figure foretold by the prophets of old? All these questions have neared their last breath, and the answers will mark either the close of a chapter or the dawn of a new one.

Ronald Weinland declares the final Weinland Window

Ronald Weinland and the Countdown

Ronald Weinland said September 30 marked the Feast of Trumpets. In this sermon, he stated that the Countdown had begun. He stated that there were 1,335 days until Jesus returned to Earth to set up God’s final government, which would reign for eternity. According to RW, the world is now entering the Great Tribulation and would continue to endure it with increasing frequency and hardship until Jesus’ return on Pentecost, 2012.

The Weinland Window has begun. We shall gauge the Thunders, Seals, and Trumpets. From disastrous natural events to predicted nuclear attacks in ports, harbors, and major cities, the world shall discern whether Ronald Weinland speaks the words of God or of man.

There are those who have always declared R.W. a false prophet. From the first moment he emerged on the scene, these people continued to aggresively promote their agenda of anti-Weinlandism through a carefully co-ordinated strategy of vitriol, hate, ridicule, and mocking. This plan was implemented in the online media through their many blogs, forums, and other avenues of discussion.

This has had a net negative effect on the public discourse. It was in the face of this climate of negativity that The Weinland Witness was born, to provide a counterbalance and place of objectivity and fairness. For many, it became a haven of relief from the Weinland-haters who were intent on destroying the man’s character and credibility due to nothing more than a personal vendetta and bitterness they harbored. These figures in the anti-Weinland scene were more often than not ex-members of his Church or COG-offshoots, and as such possessed unreasonable hatred for these organizations and their leaders. Many of them started attack blogs and forums, with the sole design of discrediting their former churches and former leaders. It is in the light of their bitter hearts that we derive a better understanding of the source of this hate.

For the Weinland undecideds and believers, nothing has been more clear than that we are living in a world of turmoil. The financial markets are in disarray, and nations continue to war with each other. Hurricanes continue to devastate, while powerful earthquakes disrupt and tear the Earth. We cannot deny that these are tumultuous times.

Ronald Weinland initially stated the beginning of the prophesied events would take place in April 2008. Several weeks before The Weinland Witness would have had full verification, he made an unusual announcement. He stated that he had presumptuously stated the timing of God’s message. According to Ronald Weinland, he had interjected his own understanding of the timing of these events. However, he stated that the timeline of events remained the same, and that 2008 was still the year. Nothing had changed in that regard.

As was extensively documented here, this is indeed a possibility. Many great figures in biblical history sinned, and yet God was able to use them to fulfill his purpose. One cannot discount the possibility that Ronald Weinland is indeed a prophet of God and yet sinned in delivering the full message accurately. Not only is this possible, but probable. Man is a creature of sin, and nothing is more certain than that we will sin, sometime, somewhere, somehow. One could even say that maybe this was bound to happen.

Momentous figures in biblical history committed grievous sins. David had a man killed just so he could marry his wife, Peter denied Jesus three times, Moses killed a man, Jonah ran from God, Balaam disobeyed God, Adam disobeyed God, Solomon committed blasphemy and worshipped false idols, Jacob stole his brother’s birthright, and Paul hunted down and killed Christians.

And yet God used all of them to fulfill his purpose.

The time is coming, and will be, when the words of R.W. will be tested and verified. We will soon see. The Weinland Window is opening, the Countdown has begun, and the world will soon know the veracity and nature of a prophet.

Ronald Weinland and the Final Test of a Prophet – The Weinland Window

Ronald Weinland‘s words near the end of the year. Israel’s trigger finger grows more itchy by the day. America’s future hangs in the balance. Rogue nations and enemy countries stand at the gates.

And RWs words remain. The name of his book was “Endtime 2008 – Gods Final Witness”. Regardless of what has happened in the past, this is make or break time.

I had wished to have this resolved by now. However, as I stated before, there is still a possibility that RW is truly a prophet of God. There is a possibility he erred in predicting events prematurely, just as there is a possibility God was using his mistake to test the faith of the people.

Ronald Weinland has declared the final timing of the events prophesied in “The Prophesied End-Time” and “Endtime 2008 – Gods Final Witness”. The events are listed below:

• September 30 – 1335 Days
• November 14 – 1290 Days
• December 14 – 1260 Days

According to this timeline, December 14 is the key date. That is when, according to Ronald Weinland, Great Tribulation begins. He is also standing by his statement that there will be no new president sworn into office. Those are several verifiable predictions.

In the coming days, weeks, and months, we will further examine world events and how/if/whether they fit into Ronald Weinland’s predicted timeline. Regardless of the test of his validity, however, the world is still in deep, deep chaos. Russia has recently awakened from it’s slumber and has begun to lash out at neighboring countries. Only a week ago they threatened Poland with a nuclear attack.

Weather conditions continue to deteriorate rapidly as well. As of this writing, Hurricane Gustav has just been upgraded to a Category 4. A 6.1 earthquake just struck China.

Only time will tell if Ronald Weinland is a true or false prophet. The year 2008 is quickly running out. The Weinland Window will be closing soon. The Final Test of a Prophet begins.

Ronald Weinland

Ronald Weinland and the Repentance of a Prophet – Presumptuous or Fallacious?

For many, July 16th was the final day of the window of time wherein Ronald Weinland would be tested. If his predictions/prophecies came to pass within that window, he would be a true prophet. If not, false.

A recent development has changed all that. Ronald Weinland recently wrote this post on his website, in which he declares he was presumptuous in his “45 to 90 days” statement – and that he no longer believes it is true.

…even though I have stated July 16 as a kind of deadline for the Second Trumpet, I am now deeply convinced that nothing concerning the trumpets will have occurred by that time…

In this June 19th post, Ronald Weinland states that the Second Trumpet could indeed occur within that time frame, but does not believe it will.

If the second trumpet sounds, with nuclear explosions in port cities, then everything will indeed be fully in line with what I’ve stated in the last interviews and in some sermons. But I do want to state again, I no longer believe that to be the case.

Why does he no longer believe that to be the case?

The bottom line is, I must follow what I believe God is showing me. If I have jumped the gun in a couple of interviews and interjected my own understanding into the timing of events, and have thereby been presumptuous, then I will repent and move forward.

So roughly 27 days before the Weinland Window was to close, Ronald Weinland pre-emptively states that there is a possibility he “jumped the gun”, “interjected his own understanding”, and was possibly “presumptous”.

Now this will provide much fodder for the Weinland-haters, who can gleefully point to this and say “Aha! He is a false prophet!” And to those who didn’t believe him from the start, this will indeed be a salve to their wounded egos.

However, to those undecideds and true believers, this will require a true testing of their faith. I have always wished to remain unbiased and impartial to this matter until there were more facts with which to make a complete decision. I must admit this was an unexpected development. By July 16th, I had wished to have this matter resolved. I had wished to know beyond a shadow of a doubt whether or not Ronald Weinland was indeed a true prophet.

Now, is Ron Weinland mortal and have human failings like all of us? Indeed. Is it possible that he interjected his own understanding into God’s message? Sure. No figure in biblical history was perfect; David wanted a woman and arranged her husband’s death; Moses killed an Egyptian; Adam disobeyed God; Peter denied Jesus.

Romans says that all have sinned. Even Ron Weinland. He is not perfect. Nobody should expect him to be. But he should also be acutely aware of the responsibility placed on his shoulders if he is indeed a prophet of God. People will take his words very seriously. If he declares himself a prophet of God and then passes off his own words as God’s message, that is very serious indeed. If what he says is true, how will the people be able to separate Ron Weinland’s understanding from God’s?

We stand at a point where all we have are words. World conditions are deteriorating, yes. Things are getting worse. But all that currently exists are Ronald Weinland‘s words. As of this point in time, there is no unequivocal, clear proof of the fulfillment of his words. Could that be part of God’s plan? Certainly. Could it be God’s way of testing the faith of the people? It’s certainly possible. But we simply do not know yet.

As of this writing, another post has appeared on RonaldWeinland.com that promises an important topic for Saturday’s sermon:

It was mentioned in the sermon this past Sabbath that a sermon would be given on Sept. 30th (Feast of Trumpets) that would explain the 50th truth given to God’s Church in these end times. Since some have been pouring out their hearts to God concerning this matter, God is now mercifully granting that this sermon be given this coming Sabbath.

This sermon will explain why the final three and one-half years of tribulation has not yet begun. It will explain why the final sealing of the 144,000 has not yet occurred.

It is still too soon to determine whether Ronald Weinland is a false prophet or not. We have no clear confirmation of his predictions nor unequivocal proof of his falsehood.

The people will continue to wait and see.

Ronald Weinland – The Weinland Witness Forum

There has been a new forum created to foster discussion among undecideds and believers of Ronald Weinland. This forum is for honest dialogue and civil discourse.

Any who are interested should feel free to contribute their thoughts and opinions on Ronald Weinland and the times we’re living in.

Hope you enjoy!

The Weinland Witness Forum