Ronald Weinland declares the final Weinland Window

October 4, 2008 by Citizen X

Ronald Weinland and the Countdown

Ronald Weinland said September 30 marked the Feast of Trumpets. In this sermon, he stated that the Countdown had begun. He stated that there were 1,335 days until Jesus returned to Earth to set up God’s final government, which would reign for eternity. According to RW, the world is now entering the Great Tribulation and would continue to endure it with increasing frequency and hardship until Jesus’ return on Pentecost, 2012.

The Weinland Window has begun. We shall gauge the Thunders, Seals, and Trumpets. From disastrous natural events to predicted nuclear attacks in ports, harbors, and major cities, the world shall discern whether Ronald Weinland speaks the words of God or of man.

There are those who have always declared R.W. a false prophet. From the first moment he emerged on the scene, these people continued to aggresively promote their agenda of anti-Weinlandism through a carefully co-ordinated strategy of vitriol, hate, ridicule, and mocking. This plan was implemented in the online media through their many blogs, forums, and other avenues of discussion.

This has had a net negative effect on the public discourse. It was in the face of this climate of negativity that The Weinland Witness was born, to provide a counterbalance and place of objectivity and fairness. For many, it became a haven of relief from the Weinland-haters who were intent on destroying the man’s character and credibility due to nothing more than a personal vendetta and bitterness they harbored. These figures in the anti-Weinland scene were more often than not ex-members of his Church or COG-offshoots, and as such possessed unreasonable hatred for these organizations and their leaders. Many of them started attack blogs and forums, with the sole design of discrediting their former churches and former leaders. It is in the light of their bitter hearts that we derive a better understanding of the source of this hate.

For the Weinland undecideds and believers, nothing has been more clear than that we are living in a world of turmoil. The financial markets are in disarray, and nations continue to war with each other. Hurricanes continue to devastate, while powerful earthquakes disrupt and tear the Earth. We cannot deny that these are tumultuous times.

Ronald Weinland initially stated the beginning of the prophesied events would take place in April 2008. Several weeks before The Weinland Witness would have had full verification, he made an unusual announcement. He stated that he had presumptuously stated the timing of God’s message. According to Ronald Weinland, he had interjected his own understanding of the timing of these events. However, he stated that the timeline of events remained the same, and that 2008 was still the year. Nothing had changed in that regard.

As was extensively documented here, this is indeed a possibility. Many great figures in biblical history sinned, and yet God was able to use them to fulfill his purpose. One cannot discount the possibility that Ronald Weinland is indeed a prophet of God and yet sinned in delivering the full message accurately. Not only is this possible, but probable. Man is a creature of sin, and nothing is more certain than that we will sin, sometime, somewhere, somehow. One could even say that maybe this was bound to happen.

Momentous figures in biblical history committed grievous sins. David had a man killed just so he could marry his wife, Peter denied Jesus three times, Moses killed a man, Jonah ran from God, Balaam disobeyed God, Adam disobeyed God, Solomon committed blasphemy and worshipped false idols, Jacob stole his brother’s birthright, and Paul hunted down and killed Christians.

And yet God used all of them to fulfill his purpose.

The time is coming, and will be, when the words of R.W. will be tested and verified. We will soon see. The Weinland Window is opening, the Countdown has begun, and the world will soon know the veracity and nature of a prophet.

Posted in Ronald Weinland | Tagged 2008, Endtimes, Gods Final Witness, Pentecost, Prophecy, Ron Weinland, Ronald Weinland | 218 Comments

218 Responses

on October 4, 2008 at 7:27 pm rlee64

I listened to Mr. Weinland’s sermon for the Feast of Trumpets. It was interesting hearing his voice again after all these years. (I’d not heard him speak since 1994.) I thought the message was very heartening and quite positive. It is, afterall, what the creation has been waiting for.

However, I am still undecided as to Mr. Weinland’s claim of being one of god’s final witnesses. But I also feel that indecision makes little difference in the long run as the 144,000 have been sealed according to Mr. Weinland.

So – we watch as events unfold indeed. It is my hope that through everything that has occurred, is occurring, and will occur that more folks come to a true understanding of the nature of our being and the purpose for our existence.

I’m glad you created this blog X. Your objectivity is appreciated.
on October 4, 2008 at 8:02 pm think-differently

rlee64,

Since Trumpets was the first you’d listened to, it may explain your position. I’ve listened to all the mp3 files available on http://www.cog-pkg.org/audio/ and am totally committed. He tells the truth.
on October 4, 2008 at 11:03 pm Vamsi

@ citizen x,
wonderful to see a weinland friendly blog here.
people should understand that ron is just helping them get acquainted of his interpretations of the final tribulation, through his sermons.
its needless to say, the correctness of his prediction are depended upon their occurance.
thanks for visiting my blog lionkingkvk.sulekha.com
cheers !
on October 6, 2008 at 10:46 pm truthseeker

Hi all,

I am back just to correct you citizen x on a couple of points.

1st the count down had started but this is not the Tribulation. The date for that is Dec 14th 2008. Oct. 30th was the day the saint were sealed. and other deeper spiritual meaning that may understand after listening to the sermons. It is 42 months, 3 1/2 years from Dec. 14th to Pentecost 2012 to the day. There are three different times from Daniel and are very meaningful and perfect:1335, 1290 and 1260. The last 1260 days = 42 months and 3 and a half years. If you figure in how Mr. Weinland came to understand this countdown you can see that it is most perfect and awsome. A time cycle of judgment 40. The time it took for the judgment to fall apon the son of perdition 40 weeks. It was 40 weeks or 280 days from the day the son of perdition gave that sabbath sermon (going against Christ/God and His commandments) to the day/hour that he died. This measurment is also used for the judgment of Satan starting on his birthday, Christmas dec 25, 2007 adding 280 days to the Feast of Trumpets on Oct. 30, starting the countdown to the return of Christ and the end of rulership of Satan on Pentecost 2012. Can we appreciate this?

2nd. Ronnald weinland did not sin and there for does not need to repent, since this later time/date was held back for a reason. And it is very clear to us why although it looks confounding to those outside. Also, Armstrong and everyone who was part of the World Wide Church of God assumed that Christ would returm on the Feast of Trumpets and therefor if the year that the Great Tribulation started on is 2008 as what was given to RW than if you subtract 1260 days from the Feast of Trumpets 2011 that would give you April 17th, two days before Passover (you see it was assumed that if it had to start in 2008 and have to end on Trumpets than the starting date would be around Passover 2008). This seemed odd to me (and I’m sure others) for it is not perfect as if it were on Passover or the first day of the Feast of Unleaven Bread (it started two days before Passover). This also put the 1335 day (75 day before 1260 days or 42 months) countdown out there with no meaning.

So, yes it was assumed by Ronald Weinland that the Tribulation would start on the April 17th but this mis-calculation was not caused by a sin of Mr. Weinland and everything happened as it was meant to by our Father for he is the one who gives everything to His Son and then to His Prophets and servants.

One clear reason (there were several) this was done is because now all of His Church was ready in April, yet if we thought it would start in Dec., most would wait to get everything ready, I know I would have. And as we can see and will see more and more day by day, min. by min., that those who are not prepared physically now, will not be able to prepare physically as the economy my collapse today/tomorrow, the end of this week, month, etc.

As always,
peace and Truth
on October 8, 2008 at 12:45 pm jairus adams

Here is a most current post on the economic meltdown supposedly now affecting the world in beginning ways..
Romans 10:6-11

IMF: World economy to slow sharply, led by US
By JEANNINE AVERSA, AP Economics Writer 19 minutes ago
WASHINGTON – The world economy will slow sharply this year and next, with the United States likely sliding into recession reflecting mounting damage from the most dangerous financial jolt in more than a half-century.
The International Monetary Fund, in a World Economic Outlook released Wednesday, slashed growth projections for the global economy and predicted the United States — the epicenter of the financial meltdown — will continue to lose traction.
“The world economy is now entering a major downturn in the face of the most dangerous shock in mature financial markets since the 1930s,” the IMF said in its report.
The IMF now projects that the global economy, which grew by a hardy 5 percent last year, will lose considerable speed, slowing to 3.9 percent this year. It is forecast to weaken even more — to just 3 percent — next year, marking the worst showing since 2002. In the past, the IMF has called global growth of 3 percent or less the equivalent to a global recession.
The IMF’s projection was made before the Federal Reserve and other major central banks from around the world slashed interest rates Wednesday in an attempt to prevent a financial crisis from becoming a global economic meltdown.
The Fed reduced its key rate from 2 percent to 1.5 percent. In Europe, which also has been hard hit by the financial crisis, the Bank of England cut its rate by half a point to 4.5 percent, while the European Central Bank sliced its rate to 3.75 percent.
Also cutting rates: The central banks of China, Canada, Sweden, and Switzerland. The Bank of Japan said it strongly supported the actions.
The IMF’s chief economist, Olivier Blanchard, called the orchestrated rate cuts “clearly a step in the right direction.” However, he warned that it is also clear that “there will be tough economic times ahead.” Lower rates aren’t a cure-all, he said. “By itself, it cannot solve the problem, but it is part of the solution.”
Asked about the risk of the global economy getting stuck in a prolonged downturn, Blanchard responded: “I believe that the risk of a Great Depression is nearly nil.’
The financial crisis, which erupted in the United States in August 2007 and has quickly spread around the globe, entered a tumultuous new phase last month, badly shaking confidence in global financial institutions and markets, the IMF said. It has triggered a cascading series of bankruptcies, forced mergers and radical government interventions — such as the United States’ unprecedented $700 billion financial bailout — to stem the fallout.
The new projections come before a gathering of the world’s top economic powers on Friday and the weekend meetings of the IMF and the World Bank. The jarring financial crisis is likely to figure prominently in those discussions.
In the United States, the economy, which grew by 2 percent last year, is projected to slow to 1.6 percent this year. Growth would screech to a virtual halt in 2009, barely budging at just 0.1 percent. That would mark the worst showing since 1991, when the country was pulling out of a recession.
“With a recession now looking increasingly likely, the key questions are, how deep will the downturn be, when will a recovery get under way and how strong will it be?” the IMF asked. Much will hinge on how effective the United States’ steps to stabilize financial markets and get credit flowing more freely again turn out to be. Another important factor is whether these and other actions turn around U.S. consumers, whose retrenchment is hurting the economy.
The IMF — and many private economists — believe the U.S. economy will probably contract in the final three months of this year and the first three months of next year, meeting a classic definition of a recession. The economy’s last recession was in 2001.
The government’s bailout package is aimed at thawing lending by buying bad mortgage-related debt from troubled financial institutions. The idea is that the banks’ books would then be cleaner, putting them in a better position to lend and get the economy moving.
The IMF said this effort should help to stabilize markets but even so “the process of balance-sheet repair will be long and arduous.” Credit availability is likely to remain constrained throughout 2009, the IMF said.
Fed Chairman Ben Bernanke warned in a speech Tuesday that the economy’s outlook for this year has darkened and the pain could last for some time. His remarks were seen as foreshadowing Wednesday’s rate cut.
Looking at other countries, Germany’s growth will slow to 1.8 percent this year, down from 2.5 percent last year. France’s growth will weaken to just 0.8 percent, compared with 2.2 percent in 2007. Britain’s economy will see growth taper to 1 percent, down from 3 percent last year. Canada’s growth will tail off to 0.7 percent this year, from 2.7 percent last year.
In Japan, growth will cool to just 0.7 percent, from 2.1 percent last year.
Global powerhouses China and India will see growth clock in this year at a robust 9.7 percent and 7.9 percent, respectively. Even if those projections prove correct, they would still mark downgrades from their blistering performances last year. Russia’s economy should grow by a brisk 7 percent this year, down from 8.1 percent last year.
Inflation around the world remains high, driven up by surging energy and food prices through much of this year.
It will be tricky for Bernanke and his counterparts in other countries to navigate weak growth and inflation pressures, the IMF said.
“The immediate policy challenge is to stabilize financial conditions, while nursing economies through a period of slow activity and keeping inflation under control,” it said.
on October 8, 2008 at 10:10 pm rlee64

Not long before the real push for a worldwide monetary unit.
on October 9, 2008 at 9:14 pm Jack

“Not long before the real push for a worldwide monetary unit”

Yes, it’s called GOLD.
on October 13, 2008 at 11:05 pm Joe

think differently,
you think i can get your email address man?
you too truth seeker if you want?
if you have AIM i would also like to get that to thanks.
on October 14, 2008 at 1:26 am |{0oL

Lots and Lots of pride and hatred towards Ron Weinland out there. I can understand why. All these years of lies false prophets healers etc…
The one thing i can say is… If he is a False Prophet we will know exactly 60-90 days after Dec.14th. And if he is NOT…Well all those who spoke so badly of him and created hate groups better repent and apologize to God himself for it is GOD himself they judged…Ron says that what he writes and speaks of is from God Almighty and not himself..Tho this is so hard to understand and the world has to change their ways so drastically it is GODs ways. The very ways we as humanity have always rejected. So im not here to say that Ron is or is not a true prophet of GOD..but im constantly reading and listening to sermons and waiting….just in case…cuz if he is i need to repent alot more. And if hes not then atleast i didnt fall into another false cult which im sick of already and thats why i dont goto church anymore…im not atheist just been decieved many times. But one thing is for sure….we are now living in a world that is changing drastically like never before in history….wether it be a mad demonic realm or just humanity killing itself it has become a Reality that we are in the end times…..biblical or not…things are getting worse globally. i grew up Catholic,tried Jehovas Witness for a year,Baptist,Born Again Christian Ive even visited the Church in Miami Creciendo En Gracia..the one that the pastor says he is Jesus Christ himself and he will not die…his real name is Jose Luis De Jesus Miranda …google it…etc…I was a Traditional Christian and i still cant believe how all the 37,000+ Denominations think they are right…Hypocrisy between them all….I was one of those Hypocrites once…But i gotta say one thing….there not Hypocrites on purpose all the time most of them are Truly Seeking God like i was. Just decieved by unhonest ppl making money. Bible was right money is the root to all evil hehe. All these religions are the cause of clash and wars..i cant stand to see a war starting and the pope blessing the army before battle and the enemy side is beeing blessed aswell…Doesnt God Love us ALL???? Anywayz comment on this if youd like….if Ron isnt Gods true prophet then i quit religion….Ill just believe it is a ZietGeist from the world Elite i guess..L@terz~!
on October 14, 2008 at 7:52 am think-differently

Joe,

I’d send it, but where to?
on October 14, 2008 at 3:20 pm Joe

Spartanhawk@hotmail.com

screen name- NaJaEreSHu
on October 14, 2008 at 5:36 pm rachel

im sorry i have doubted ron. i have been listening to his sermons and thank god this voice of truth and hope is accesable to me.
on November 5, 2008 at 8:50 pm rlee64

So – if Mr. Obama is inaugurated – does that mean that Mr. Weinland has been incorrect and that he is not a prophet?
on November 5, 2008 at 8:55 pm truthbeliever12

rlee64,
Hi, you should listen to last Sabbath’s sermon, especially towards the last half our or so where he discusses all of that.
on November 7, 2008 at 7:57 pm rlee64

I was a member of the WCG for a period of time in the early 90’s. Kind of a bad time to be a member I guess – but in all that time, I never doubted the convictions of the Ministers I’d listened to – Mr. Weinland being the fellow whom I’d heard the most.

I do not doubt the conviction he has right now either. I’d always found him to be very forthright in his speaking and in his Ministry. I agree with Kevin’s assessment of “what does he have to gain” in all this. A person’s reputation and character are worth more than any material thing in this world – and for him to put those ‘on the line’ by speaking his faith – - – -

That says a lot.

I’ve always had the utmost respect for him.

Given the bad taste in my mouth (or perhaps what may truly be my own ‘lukewarmness’) due to the shattering of the WCG I tend to be skeptical of the naming of times and seasons. Of course my skepticism may also be due to the convictions I was led to by the very words of Mr. Weinland himself (albeit 15 years ago) not to listen to those saying “Lo, He is here!”

As I said before – if the 144,000 have already been sealed – I don’t see what difference my conviction towards his message really makes right now. I believe as Yahweh and Yeshua lead me to.
on November 15, 2008 at 5:27 pm Computer Guy

I know the tribulation will be the worst time in human history. Yet, it is foretold and completely unavoidable – at least in the macro sense. I understand that some will be allowed to escape. Dec 14th – dunno. I’m inclined to believe Mr Weinland. We’ll see. But, to God the Father I pray: “thy kingdom come” – let’s get it over with.
on November 17, 2008 at 6:03 pm Jack

Yes. I agree, let’s get it over with. I am tired of watching people be ugly with each other.
on November 18, 2008 at 3:37 pm RJ

in 1974 I was called to be part of WWCG, but I just couldn’t make the total commitment so I became a co-worker instead. I felt 100% certain that this was Gods Church, and followed them very closely. I loved the truth they had. The thing that turned me off was they were always so obsessed with predicting when the tribulation was going to begin and some of the people I knew in the church weren’t living very good lives. After the apastasy of the mid 90s I knew this was significant but I didn’t know what, I looked at different church splinters but wasn’t drawn to any of them, then out of the blue I ran into RW and COG-PKG and after reading there books I knew this was it the church that God is working with. I feel 100% certain this is Gods church. However I have a slight doubt that the tribulation really is going to start in 1 month it seems so surreal. I’m so sick of all the religious confusion and deception, that I hope it does, the sooner it starts the sooner kingdom of Gods reigns begins and that indead is GOOD NEWS.
on November 18, 2008 at 7:32 pm Jake

Hey all, how you all doing?
With the end of the world imminent, i thought i’d start off being nice.
Now, I’m sort of new to this guy, Ron, but fom what i have gathered, he is pretty right about some of his predictions. As we have all seen, our economy really went down the drain. Now, I believe i was informed that Ron indeed said by the end of 2008, the economy would be in ruin…or have I got the wrong dates? Or eveen the wrong quote?
Also, with the fcat of their being no president, look at it this way. The odds of Obama being assassinated is insanely high. Some Americans do not agree with a black man being in the White House. However, I do not need to proclaim I’M A PROPHET TO HAVE FORSEEN THESE 2 THINGS, it is merely a matter of deduction. Of course, with goverments as they are now, it as hardly a hard guess to say that pretty soon, money would crash. And I can safely say that someone will plan to attack Obama, though i hope this does not happen.
Basically, Ron may be telling the truth, but seeing as I am a minor(under-age) I’m gonna just wait out 2008, and hope that i get some good christmas pressies
on November 19, 2008 at 3:52 pm Jack

To Jake

The last notable assassination attempt on a prez was Ronald Reagan. Many years have gone by and technology has increased at an enormous rate.

As a former security consultant, I guarantee that it is impossible to assassinate the president of the US. The size of the group and the technology that shadows the prez, would be mind boggling to the common citizen.

Even our emails and phone calls are put through “filters”. It is impossible for telnet to exist without “filters”. There is no longer a need for agents to sit in offices listening to recordings of bugs. They are out in the field, even MILES from the location of their charge.
on November 19, 2008 at 6:51 pm Nonnie

Hey, Dill Weed,
Have you ever heard “forgive them, for they know not what they say”? You’re in for a mighty big surprise, Dude.

I totally believe. You can come to my house for dinner when your job is gone because the money they want to pay you with is no good, the stores only have cat food left (it is meat-ish, no?) and you have to step into nuclear fallout to get there. . . because I have listened and HEARD.

If you are smart enough to follow Ron, you should look at the REAL website, not the scammer ones, because through your retarded sarcasm, I can detect your fear.

God bless you, because he has me, and I am no better than anyone else, except that my eyes have been opened.
(I used to dill weed, too)
on November 20, 2008 at 12:17 am Joe

hello dill weed, you should read the two books if you have not already what is going to happen is in those books.
Remember the pharaohs in Moses time I figure that the people who have power today will be angered and will harden their hearts ( it has happened before like the time when pharaoh’s heart was hardened toward Moses) because they finally have all the power and they don’t want to give it up.

It is better to go and turn away rather then to be harsh on him for absolutely no reason. be wary for people who mock were prophesied to come. Turn to your bible and see

2Peter3

3Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,

4And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

5For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:

6Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:

7But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

8But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

9The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

10But the day of the Lord will come as a THIEF IN THE NIGHT; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

11Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,

12Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

13Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

14Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.

15And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;

16As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

17Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.

18But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.”

Be weary for judging if he is a Prophet then you are endanger of Judging the Almighty and that would be a bad idea. remember when the Israelites judged moses and murmured against him they were sent to die in the wilderness. it would be better to just leave and stop talking about it then to speak against him and if he isn’t why would you rub it in his face that is a terrible prideful thing to do he put every thing on the line for what he believes for that he deserves some respect. forgive him and be of good spirit right? so don’t mock him by being sarcastic i see that you have doubts but why do you have to announce it. keep it to your self rather then spreading that feeling you have with other people and bringing them down with you. have faith in Almighty God for his Promises will come to pass. and also they are not literally going to spit fire out of there mouths they even say it in the books it is metaphorical for the wrath of God being put upon them that try to destroy the two witnesses. 666 is also explained on the FAQ section of the site so please read the two books and the FAQ on the site. I’ am not trying to put you down i am just trying to inform you to be careful and that you are standing on thin ice and I don’t want you to fall in(One who is on thin ice dose not know it until some one says something and if that person wants to stay on thin ice and ignore them they will fall in and reap the consequences of ignoring the person trying to help them.) For the Lord knows what is in your heart when you say those things so be wary and fear Almighty God. for if you are wrong and Mr. Weinland is right then you will reap the consequences of your actions. and fall into the cold water you stood on so poudly and confidently. You have been warned and my hope is that you will turn to Safety.
http://www.cog-pkg.org/faq/topics.aspx#toc

thanks for reading
Joe
on November 20, 2008 at 12:37 pm Citizen X

“This may seem strange, but I want to live through The End. I want to see the terrifying things that will happen – to witness them first hand. Don’t ask why – I can’t say why.
I have read widely about what is supposed to happen.”

I can understand this sentiment. I believe a part of this desire is believers’ understanding of the power of prophecy – and the desire to see history happen as prophecy is fulfilled before our very eyes.

I think many also understand the powerful validation fulfilled prophecy would be of God – and simultaneously want to witness that.

I too, ask God that I may live through the Tribulation so I can behold his power as he brings his words to pass.
on November 20, 2008 at 4:31 pm Jack

Kevin

Without getting into conspiracy theories, I would like to reiterate my statement:
“The size of the group and the technology that shadows the prez, would be mind boggling to the common citizen. ”

A and B realistically apply to those other than the president of the USA. That said, “B” IS the mantra of the special services industry.
on November 21, 2008 at 12:39 pm Jack

Kevin

You nailed it on the head with the word “means”. But I have to point out that only a multi-billionaire would have the “means” to scrape together all the necessary equipment and people.

I concede.
on November 21, 2008 at 9:18 pm rlee64

A prophecy unfulfilled was mere speculation. Unofrtunately, for someone with the calling of the ministry, they’re held accountable for such things . . . though what that accountability means . . . well – not for me to say nor judge.

So – he said he doesn’t know what’s going to happen after 12/14?

Does that mean he’s given up the mantle of prophet?
on November 21, 2008 at 10:57 pm Jack

No. He’s just trying to save face.
on November 22, 2008 at 6:57 am carmel

I am feeling completely bewildered wondering why everyone is trying to work out exactly when the end of the world will be?? when in fact they forget this…….

Dan 12:3 And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament: and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever……………

Dan 12:4 But thou,O Daniel shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased. More importantly we don’t really have to know exactly when these things will happen…….we have a reason in strength of unity as christians to stand in allegiance to God not man.
on November 22, 2008 at 12:32 pm Jack

Amen.
on November 22, 2008 at 7:31 pm Jack

Ronald Weinland is going to be on ABC TV in Australia tonight. Unfortunately I live in Canada and cannot watch it live. The ad for the program states that Pentecostal Pastor Ronald Weinland will give his views on the end time. Also on the program will be a sociologist and a psychologist. Hopefully Ronald will post this interview on his web site in the same manner he has with his radio interviews. The purpose of the program is to determine if he is an enlightened prophet, or barking mad.
on November 23, 2008 at 7:20 am Steve

Hi Jack,
Where did you see this ad for the program because I live in Australia and I missed it so I was searching the abc.net.au website and I cannot find anything.
Steve.
on November 23, 2008 at 12:21 pm Jack

It is on the program called Compass.
http://www.abc.net.au/compass/video/
I’m not sure but I think it is on at 10:30pm your time.
on November 23, 2008 at 2:23 pm Citizen X

carmel said:

“I am feeling completely bewildered wondering why everyone is trying to work out exactly when the end of the world will be??”

The two verses you quote from Daniel don’t exactly prove your point. Surely you are aware of the parable of the seven wise and the seven foolish virgins? There are numerous mentions of signs to watch for to know when the Second Coming will be.

The Bible constantly talks about vigilance. Jesus spoke of many signs to look for. I don’t know anyone that’s trying to work out exactly when the “end of the world” will be – people are trying to remain vigilant as to when the Second Coming is.

Something tells me you either don’t believe or don’t read the Bible. The world doesn’t end. It changes. There are some who will be asleep and be surprised and some who will be vigilant and know what’s coming.

Which will you be?
on November 23, 2008 at 6:50 pm rlee64

Good point X.

Well put too.

The fact of the matter is also that – the “end” (judgment) can come upon any one of us at any given time if something unfortunate were to befall us and we should meet an untimely end.

The devil is in the details . . .

Think about it. Were someone to proclaim something as prophecy and add the caveat that only those “called” will hear their message, and then that message didn’t come to fruition as they claimed – would that not cause a falling away? Would that become a stumbling block to faith? Isn’t that what we’re supposed to avoid?

My personal understanding of a witness is just that – someone who sees something. And sees it for what it is. It doesn’t solely connote the gift of prophecy – it includes insight and interpretation. Those truly imbued with God’s Spirit can “see” things that other folks don’t.

It’s not about times and seasons – it’s about being awake and prepared (spiritually – and to a lesser degree, physically and mentally) when the time for accountability arrives.
on November 23, 2008 at 8:25 pm carmel

X,

I am merely stating facts not implying you are twisting my words our lives on earth will change at the end and it is the end of this world and a new world to come……
I really dont have time to argue with you ….then insult me and ask if I am ready ……even when I pledge loyalty to God of Israel……
on November 23, 2008 at 10:46 pm Citizen X

Carmel,

I’m not sure what facts you stated since you simply asked a question and then quoted two verses.

However, if you were not condemning the spirit of vigilance, then no harm done. I am glad to know you agree a watchful eye is necessary in these times.

Jesus mentioned numerous times in the Bible how important it was to remain vigilant so that we are not caught unawares. I am pleased to hear you pledge loyalty to the God of Israel and that you agree, especially in these times, how important it is not to be caught unawares.
on November 23, 2008 at 11:48 pm carmel

Citizen X

I have always believed that it would be only ignorance not to be aware of full scale end time events…….especially when the bible diligently speaks of this. It was in the two verses I quoted it speaks of Daniel closing the book and there is a seal on it for a time …..I don’t claim to have a doctorate…I believe that just at the right time all things will happen to God’s Glory …..We live in turbulent times….. we who are strong in faith stand in the breach…… are required to give accountability of our faith to anyone who asks. It would be better to win a souls for Christ than to loose them.
on November 24, 2008 at 1:10 am South Africa 28

Hi Carmel,

I just wanted to say, part of the truth I recently learnt is that we cannot win a soul to Christ, only God can. No one is able to believe, unless God the father draws them. We can try until we are blue in our face, nothing will change or take root in them unless God is working with them.

God has only called out 144 000 people over the last 6000 years and worked with them for his ed time purpose. They are going to be our Government ruling with Christ.
Now that we are in the end time God is calling alot more into his church so that we can live into the mill. and be in his church.

I am very sorry if I miss understood you. I do that alot so I know it is possible.
on November 24, 2008 at 6:49 am Steve

Thanks Jack for finding that!
Hopefully it will be uploaded soon as I missed it as well.
on November 24, 2008 at 7:49 pm rlee64

I don’t doubt Mr. Weinland’s convictions in what he is saying. And if these prophecies are proven false – I don’t think he’ll check himself into an Inpatient Hospital for any anti-psychotics. I’ve known plenty of clear headed people to be dead wrong about things they felt strongly about . . . or sincerely wished to be true.

From what I know of the man – he’ll probably make a humble apology to those who’ve listened to and heeded his words – thank them for their faith and continue in his ministry in some fashion.

Either way – right or wrong – my perspective doesn’t change. I still watch and wait and do my best to stay awake.
on November 24, 2008 at 8:08 pm carmel

Hi South Africa

Yes that is right it is through the Holy Spirit we are guided…and there are certain people who are more gifted to ’save souls’ like evangelists…yes people must be willing to accept Christ first……..

Jack….. thank you I am downloading the link on the ABC TV I like Steve missed the Saturday showing……

Dill Weed…….You are mocking RW he is very over zealous in what he is claiming although you could be border line in belief although I don’t really know what you believe …still want to be in tribulation….why???? do you think God will suddenly forgive you if you are his enemy????
on November 24, 2008 at 9:14 pm Citizen X

I’ll reiterate for those who aren’t aware.

The Weinland Witness is for undecideds or unbelievers. It is not for Weinland-haters or mockers.

If you are not an undecided or believer, there are many online discussion avenues to pursue. This, however, is not one of them.

Those that ignore this clear policy will find themselves summarily banned. The time will come when a decision will be made on TWW regarding RW’s status as a prophet – true or false.

However, that time is not yet here and until that moment, TWW’s position is clear.
on November 25, 2008 at 12:03 am Jack

Citizen X

“enlightened prophet, or barking mad”
was from the Australian ABC-TV web site and did not originate from me. I posted that link because I have never SEEN Ronald Weinland on television. I have only HEARD his sermons on cog-pkg.org
on November 25, 2008 at 5:32 am Steve

Yes Jack, I agree. I had no idea the show would be like that and we were only viewing Ron as we are passionate about the word of the Lord.
on November 25, 2008 at 12:53 pm Joe

Ron Weinland
“Oftentimes people ask me the question of whether or not I feel that I’m wrong, or ‘What if?’ They keep asking, ‘What if? What if?’ How can I answer that? To me there is no ‘What if?’ It is. It is what it is. And there is no doubt in my mind, as sure as the sun’s coming up in the morning, and it’s going down this evening, this afternoon. That’s just the way it is, it’s that clear, it’s that absolute. There is no altering of anything.”

this is the type of faith and confidence a true prophet would have.
on November 26, 2008 at 4:16 am carmel

Joe

I heard recently a lady on radio interview who had a phD in philosophy etc….debating how she thought… how can we who are christians prove what we believe…..because she didnt have the ability to prove that there is a god..(and there is many of so called gods)…….or God
This is a worldly unspiritual view because God has shut them out….. it is fortold in scripture that he has the right to do this many are Called but few are Chosen….Men turn away from God and that causes them to have their eyes blinded to the truth…….

I believe that as a christian you have a inward knowing (the Holy Spirit guides) some just dont have this understanding…..
on November 30, 2008 at 12:02 pm Jack

Ronald Weinland says there is no rapture. I also say there is no rapture.
on November 30, 2008 at 1:36 pm rlee64

Agreed. Biblically – there is nothing to support a “rapture” as extrapolated by a lot of modern faiths. Lotsa hopeful conjecture – but that’s about it.
on December 2, 2008 at 6:33 pm Jack

rlee64
“Lotsa hopeful conjecture – but that’s about it.”

Indeed. Yet the ministers who promote false prophecies continue on with their conjecture, ignoring the scripture

“There are some things in them hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other scriptures.”
on December 3, 2008 at 11:43 pm Joe

carmel- thank you but these words are not mine I pray to the Lord before I type something that I may type the right things to lead people int the right direction. and I hope that I am helping.

Kevin,

Ron-”The word “rapture” does not appear in the Bible. The concept of the rapture is new and comes from mans own thinking and not from Gods inspired word. No one goes to heaven to be protected for 7 years, and the end-time tribulation lasts for 3 1/2 years, not 7 years.”

Ron-”There is no literal physical place of safety for the Church during the time of great tribulation, but there is a spiritual one. The wings referred to in Revelation 12:14 are symbolic of protection, as are the skirts (Hebrew for “wings,” as in “protection”) in Ezekiel 5:3. This is in reference to a specific time period of protection for a few whom God first began calling to be part of a remnant. This period of time that lasted for three and one-half years has already come and gone.”

basically why would God send his servants to some place safe when he can use his servants to help people that are in deep suffering and tribulation? His servants are to spread hope and to serve not to hide. God will be protecting those servants with with his ALMIGHTY power.
this is from Rev 18

16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

18Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

I think this is talking about those sealed who are alive until the last day on earth. Ron says that those who are sealed and alive at the last day of tribulation will instantly Turn into God beings. I would think that this is where it comes from. “and the dead in Christ shall rise first” it is referring to those part of the 144,000 that are dead in Christ. If I am wrong truth believer please correct me.

I am sorry but I could not find Corinthians1, 16:51;53. the Bible I’m looking at has 1 Corinthians 1-24 I can’t find 51:53

Oh and concerning the souls Ron dose not believe that our souls are Immortal only God can give that. Soul just means your physical body. thats probably why they are being sold in Rev that they were being sold as slaves merchants back then did sell slaves. notice before it says soul it is talking about merchandise it would be more likely that it is talking about a slave a physical soul

Genesis 2:7-”And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul”

Genesis 12:13-”Say, I pray thee, thou art my sister: that it may be well with me for thy sake; and my soul shall live because of thee.”

Genesis 19:20-”Behold now, this city is near to flee unto, and it is a little one: Oh, let me escape thither, (is it not a little one?) and my soul shall live.”

to drive the point home

Genesis 3

3But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye DIE.

4And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

5For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

now notice God doesn’t say you will go to hell he says you will die. not live on forever. and notice how the serpent says “Ye shall not surely die” this means that the immortal soul is a deception concocted by Satan himself. by being told that you go to heaven or hell when you die and not just die you are being deceived.

I believe Mr. Weinland because he doesn’t randomly pull something from no where every thing he says is from God’s Inspired word if you have any further questions please go to the site read the FAQ section and if further interested email an elder. I also suggest reading both books twice as dose the site.

concerning Jesus go to this site then go to 2005 Feast of Tabernacles and that should tell you all you want to know concerning that. http://www.cog-pkg.org/audio/archive.aspx should take you to the archive

I am not trying to be mean or saying you have to believe what i am telling you. you are a free moral agent and you are allowed to believe what you want. the reason why I have typed this is because I feel that you are just not looking at the whole picture and are seeing a few gaps. I hope I filled in a few
on December 4, 2008 at 8:55 am rlee64

Kevin –

It’s not what Mr. Weinland says so much as it’s the research and study that’s led to the conclusion. Most folks I’ve known from the old WCG – whether still involved in one of her offshoots or not – have one thing in common. They know their scriptures and the context in which they occur.

The rapture as folks like Tim LaHaye describe it is a Biblical fallacy. There will be a “caught up in the air” event – but it’s going to be at the moment of Christ’s return, not years before. That’s what the Book says.

And over the centuries – folks have tended to embellish the book . . .

As far as “souls” go – there are scriptures that use the word- but the Englich word soul and the Hebrew or Greek words it’s used to translate for don’t necesarily mean what we’ve come to understand “soul” to mean. (Just like the Old English hell is used for a few very different words.) In the Old Testament the word ‘nephesh’ has been translated “soul.” But what nephesh means is “Living being” and it is applied to both man and animal. In Ecclesiastes it basically says that man has no advantage over beast and both have the same life. The dead know nothing.

If souls are eternal and ever living – what need would there be for any resurrection? Our reward would come at death and it would render Revelations and Daniel and Ezekiel unecessary. The concept of an eternal soul isn’t Judeo-Christian in origin. The Bible doesn’t support the idea. What is the penalty of sin again?

People wanting the bible to support the idea support the idea – but the Book don’t say it’s so. I guess that’s the issue. If you’re going to base your belief system on a book – I wouldn’t listen to what folks say about the Book – I’d read the Book.

That’d be like talking to others about a movie based on a critic’s review of the movie as opposed to watching the movie. However – if the critic is a good one, they might tell you what to watch for in certain passages. Know what I mean?

It wasn’t until I earnestly prayed in an honest deisre for understanding of what I was reading – that I began to understand it. Which is a circular argument that most reasoning folks would say is ridiculous. But – that’s how faith works ain’t it?

The Book interprets itself. It’s not linear – and when it’s pieced together and read in it’s own contexts – the big picture becomes clearer. There’s a lot of sincere believers out there being led by others’ understanding – - – when Jahweh’s desire for us is that we should be led by His understanding.

I hope that makes sense.
on December 4, 2008 at 6:45 pm Joe

I’m sorry Kevin I did not mean to come off as a teacher or as a mind reader. you asked questions and I tried to answer them to help you but I guess those questions were not to be answered? any way the gaps i was referring to was to show you the other side of it because you came off as if you did not know what the other side of it was or had a lack of understanding of what Ron is saying concerning those things. thus filling in the gaps to show where Ron is coming from concerning those things that you mentioned in scripture because Ron has said things about it in sermons. Ultimately God is the only one that can show you the whole picture. I can not all I can do is pray that God may use me to speak to you to give you drips and drabs, and say what is needed to be said for your spiritual growth

I don’t know where you are concerning your growth and I might of caused more harm then good.

and for that I am sorry Kevin

-Joe
on December 4, 2008 at 10:42 pm carmel

I only have finished hearing the ABC program with RW, Greg Clarke, John Dickson. I believe RW is a minister quite over zealous in his concepts although I don’t believe he is one of the end time witnesses. I have questions to this man’s standing with the churches he has been part of especially his wealth etc..
Jesus led a humble life I don’t see him doing this….

I believe when the two witnesses come on the scene they will be humble and spirit filled…………..
on December 5, 2008 at 8:32 am carmel

Kevin,

I may need to explain about the wealth factor…. I have a problem if wealth in churches is great and not in line with the scriptures ( I need to make myself clear ) If the church is rich……….and doesn’t feed the flock spirtually it will crumble eventually……Mark 12:44 poor widow gave everything she had all her living…although I hope the church helped her out and others like her…some churches tithe and it does speak of this in scriptures 11Cor 9:7 … cheerful giver never the less…… more so it does say that a minister is worthy ……and blessed are the feet of them that spread good news……..
on December 10, 2008 at 8:40 am carmel

Kevin,

I believe that the most important question is “to be ready” …….11Peter 3:14… be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.
I believe it speaks of Jesus second coming it is a catastrophic time phase…note 16…..as also in all his epistles speaking in them of these things:in which are some things hard to be understood,…. (this is expressing not to be lead astray…be guided by the Holy Spirit….
Some things are literally going to happen……
on December 11, 2008 at 12:30 am Jack

Four more days till Ronald Weinland starts his job. It’s for real this time, because there are only 21 days left in the year 2008.
on December 11, 2008 at 8:28 pm Mal

Either the sequence of events and dates he has come up with are just an incredible coincidence (the way the 1335 and the 40 line up is unique to the year 2008 and do not match if you go 100 years back or 100 years forward), or else God has indeed rubber stamped Ronald Weinland’s authority as His end time prophet.

Ronald Weinland’s preaching (available on his church website) makes a whole lot of sense to me, plus I am impressed by his humility before God. His church has sacrificially distributed over half a million copies of his book ‘2008 God’s Final Witness’ free of charge including postage.

I tend to think he is genuine.

We don’t have long to wait to find out.

The traditional Christian church could find they have to start changing their thinking on a number of issues.
on December 14, 2008 at 9:07 pm Jack

The traditional Christian church could find they have to start changing their thinking on a number of issues.

All churches should start changing their thinking and start reading the testimony of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, Son of the Living God.
Jesus Christ is the only name by which you can be saved. and
Whosoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved
on December 15, 2008 at 3:22 pm Jack

Kev
I’m sure Bush’s detail does not have the same zeal for him now that he is on his way out. Once a president elect is a reality, the old prez is basically obsolete. They turn their favours to the new boss.

The shoes got into the room because they contained no metal and the gas chromatograph detected no flagged molecular compounds.
on December 16, 2008 at 8:35 am rlee64

“Once a president elect is a reality, the old prez is basically obsolete. They turn their favours to the new boss.”

No – not the case. A family member of mine works Secret Service. Their duties are very clear regardless of whether the President is leaving or not. Judging from the spelling of ‘favour’ – I would guess American history and political structure aren’t exactly your strong suit.

No big deal though . . .

I though Mr. Bush was pretty quick with his reflexes though. Ducked those shoes pretty handily! I also think the general reaction in the Arab world is very telling. We as a nation are not in the good graces of those we share the planet with . . . .
on December 16, 2008 at 9:41 am Stephen

Hello all.
Praise and Glory be to God almighty, Elohim, El SHaddai, the father of our lord and savior Jesus Christ. For an age and half an age, the Lord has told us to repent, for the Kingdom of God is near( Matt 4.17, 10.7 Luke 10.9). God is full of goodness, grace and love, that he will forgive all those who repent their sins. All those that call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved( Rom 10.13). Ron Weinland speaks the truth, in that every man, woman and child should repent their sins, in this age as it was in the old age. We are bound to death by our thoughts, actions and words, but the blood of Jesus breaks every yolk. By his blood, we are saved( Romans 5.9). Jesus said, take up your own cross, and follow me( mark 8:34). He simply means, denounce all worldly things, and seek spiritual riches. At the core, these are Love, Faith and Hope. Paul further explains all the traits of Jesus that we need to posses (Gal 5:22-23).. These are the riches we should strive for.
Ron Weinland has shed a bit of light on these issues. The basis of his teachings has been the end times. while all these facts might be obvious to you, we should not overlook what Jesus said.”Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?”(Math 7:22).. Also remember what Jesus said about the day and time of tribulation. “But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone.”Mathew 24:36
on December 16, 2008 at 10:11 am Stephen

….continued

These are the words of Jesus Christ Himself, the Son our mighty Father in Heaven, who was given dominion over all Heaven, earth and everything below it. But what does this mean? And can a man override the words of Jesus by saying he himself knows the exact timing. does Ronald Weinland fulfill the prophesy in Revelations Chapter 11? They say he is a humbl man before God. Only God can say that of Ron. Only he knows the heart of man. Ezekiel 28:12 refers to Satan as a model of perfection, full of wisdom and perfect in beauty..Remember this children of God, that Satan knows much more than we ever will, so do not be easily decieved. Summon the Holy spirit and ask for wisdom and discernment. I do not hate thin man, Ron Weinland, but the two olive trees are not yet revealed. They will not come from America, they will come from a country most of you have never heard of. They will not declare themselves as prophets, rather they will focus on preaching Love and repentance. They are what none of you are expecting them to be. They are simple men, who have been persecuted since they where born for the sake of the word of God. Our Father in Heaven says, stand guard against deceit, pray day and night for your own souls, and do not be mislead. there are still many preparations to be done.in the mean time, go tell it to the world. Jesus Christ is Lord, and He has died that we mAy live. Pray therefore, day and night, that God Almighty may guide you all. Do not be deceived, for although, for the devil is cunning, intelligent beyond your imagination. He knows how to fool an entire race. Be weary. God loves this man, Ron Weinland, as he loves you all. Again i urge you, pray, read the word, and tell everyone about the Lord Jesus Christ. The time has been near since Jesus spokr those words, and no one knows the time..
Peace to you all
on December 16, 2008 at 4:52 pm Jack

He does not hate thin men?
on December 18, 2008 at 9:06 pm Mike

I have been interested in RW since I first read his book in 2007. Much of what he wrote struck a cord with me, and when I listened to his radio interviews, he seemed to be very logical and reasoned in his words.

There were two things about him, though, that has troubled me, and continue to do so.

First, nothing he has predicted in his book or in his interviews was beyond what any highly intelligent and well informed prognosticator could come up with. Our current economic troubles were entirely predictable. Also, as time passes and some of his predictions show themselves to be in error, he seems to be changing his version of what he has said in the past. Also, now he is saying that many of the signs of the tribulation will only occur in the spiritual world. It all gives the appearance of a con man trying to explain his way out of the jam he;s found himself in.

The second thing is how he preaches the word. His sermons are always about membership in the church, what it means to be a member, what the demands are, and encouragement to stay the course under his tutelage. It all has the feel of a cult. His word is law, and cannot be questioned. If you have doubts, it is your fault. If you question him, you are questioning God. This is how a cult operates. Is the church merely a tithing factory, with the free books merely effective advertising? It’s starting to look like that more and more.

Comments, anyone?
on December 19, 2008 at 11:28 pm carmel

I believe that the two witnesses won’t broadcast……… they are whoever… I believe that will be humble…peculiar people…the called of God… predestinated from the beginning of the world… and when the time is right everyone should identify their work….which will be in line with the pure inspired word in the bible. They will be from what I know here all of tribulation…….
on December 20, 2008 at 3:17 pm rlee64

Mike –

I was a member of the WCG (Mr. Weinland’s former Church) and was actually a member of his congregation beginning in 1989. I was baptised by Mr. Weinland in 1992. He left our area in 1993 to go to Toledo. it was Mr. Weinland’s sermons that were my spiritual food for many years.

That being said. From what I hear of him and the members of his new congregation, it’s very similar in structure and tone with the old WCG. And – as with the ministry of the WCG – if the ministry starts straying from the foundations of biblical teaching, there’s likely going to be some errors made. (I.e. some of the thing spredicted in the late 60’s / early 70’s.) the ministry of the WCG repented of any errors they’d made.

We’ll see if Mr. Weinland must follow suit.

I think it looks like Mr. Obama is going to make to inauguration day. If that’s the case – it directly contradicts something Mr. Weinland has said will come to pass. And – we are to know a prophet by the veracity of theor prophecies.

I’m not following Mr. Weinland very closely as I am not convinced he is one of the “end time” prophets. I do believe he is sincere in his convictions and in the words he speaks. (Always have believed that – and there are things he’s said – inspired no doubt by the Holy Spirit – that I still keep near to my heart and that guide my choices / actions to this day.) Whether or not his prophecies should be heeded at present rests in the will of the listener I suppose. The kicker is – if I say I’m not convinced he’s a prophet and his congregation are convicted that he is – then my words and opinions are discounted as I am not speaking in the Spirit of Truth . . .

Interesting –

As it was Mr. Weinland who baptised me and lay hands on me . . .

Is his congregation a cult? Probably not – as folks are free to leave and folks are free to criticize (though they won’t be sticking around long if they cause dissension.) Is it out of the mainstream? Yep. Dangerous? No. Are his words capital “T” Truth?

Still remains to be seen.
on December 21, 2008 at 12:04 pm think-differently

http://www.cog-pkg.org/faq/topics.aspx#toc

Seems like most of you are more concerned with your own skin. That’s fine. If, however, you are truly interested in truth, check out the above web site.

Or, start with the-end.com for Ron Weinland’s free books.
on December 21, 2008 at 1:53 pm Mal

Before I ever heard of Ronald Weinland it was my understanding from the Scriptures that God has a 7000 year salvation plan. For 6000 years since the fall of Adam, Satan and mankind have been allowed to go their own sinful and destructive way on the earth. The climax of the 6000 years will be three and a half years of ‘Great Tribulation’, in which conditions on earth will get so bad that, if God did not intervene, mankind would completely destroy himself. Christ will then return to set up His government on earth with His ‘bride’ (glorified physical human beings similar to the resurrected Christ) and Satan will be locked up for 1000 years. This total of 7000 years, was pictured by God in the 7 day week which culminates in His Sabbath day of rest (the final 1000 years).

Man’s 6000 years of fruitless toil, followed by the arrival of the Kingdom of God on earth, is pictured by God’s use of the number 6 in various parts of the Bible.

A few examples (there are several others) are:

A Hebrew servant shall serve six years and in the seventh he shall go free (Exodus 21:2)

Jesus at the wedding changed six water pots of water into wine (John 2:1-10)

After six days Jesus took Peter, James and John up into a high mountain and was transfigured before them (Matt 17:1,2)

After six days Moses was called up Mt Sinai to be in the presence of God (Exodus 24:13-18)

There were six steps leading up to Solomon’s throne (2 Chronicles 9:18)

It can be shown using Bible records (ages of all the patriarchs which the Holy Spirit was careful to include) that we are indeed at around the 6000 year point from Adam. Note this does not mean the earth is 6000 years old.

Therefore I believe we are approx at the point when God’s two witnesses can be expected.

So I am not yet writing off Ronald Weinland. He has said some things which the traditional Christian church will find controversial but that doesn’t rule him out. He deserves more time.
…………………………………………………………………………………
One more point. People often use Jesus’ words that “nobody knows the day or the hour” to write off Ronald Weinland. This was true when Jesus said it but we are now 2000 years further down the line. Note: 1) Daniel was told the meaning of his prophecies was reserved for the ‘time of the end’. 2) Amos 3:7 says “God does nothing unless He reveals His secret to His servants the prophets”.
3) Apostle Paul said in 1 Thess 5:1-6 “But concerning the times and seasons, brethren, you have no need that I should write to you. For you yourselves know perfectly that the Day of the Lord comes as a thief in the night. For when they say “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labour pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape. But you, brethren, are not in darkness so that this Day should overtake you as a thief. You are all sons of the light and sons of the day. We are not of the night nor of darkness. Therefore, let us not sleep, as others do, but let us watch and be sober.”
on December 21, 2008 at 2:06 pm think-differently

http://www.cog-pkg.org/faq/topics.aspx#toc

Seems like most of you are more concerned with your own skin. That’s fine. If, however, you are truly interested in truth, check out the above web site.

Or, start with the-end.com for Ron Weinland’s free books.
on December 23, 2008 at 2:36 am randomguy

‘Seems like most of you are more concerned with your own skin.’

I read that message and I understood it pretty clearly. In today’s world there are sick and perverted things that go on. The reason they happen is because man lives his own way of life(holidays instead of holy days, no sabbath, etc). God is saying this is what happens when you don’t follow my way. When the true Yahweh works with someone, he changes you in ways you’ve never experienced in this world. People who live in righteousness before God share a unique bond, as we face many of the same battles of sin that God reveals and can’t quite explain it to others. Everyone looks after self and how to bring one’s self through a predicament, but the answer is God. But the world doesn’t know the true God, if they did know him, Jesus would have been worshipped by all. Instead he was hated then, and he’s hated now as people hate the truth, man hasn’t changed in 6,000 years. So it’s not about our own skin, it’s about our family and all who enter and seek to live God’s way of life.
on December 23, 2008 at 9:58 am think-differently

Sorry, it does seem now a rather snide remark.

http://www.cog-pkg.org/faq/topics.aspx#toc

If you are truly interested in truth, check out the above web site, it’s been incredibly updated.

Or, start with the-end.com for Ron Weinland’s free books.
on December 24, 2008 at 5:16 pm think-differently

Here’s an excellent quote for Christmas:

1John 2:21 I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth.

God’s word is truth – No lie is of the truth!

I got this from the cog-pkg web site, through the publications section: http://www.cog-pkg.org/publications/bible_stories.pdf under Origin of Christmas.
on December 24, 2008 at 6:27 pm Mike

think-differently,

You talk about the truth, but here is our dilemma:

RW makes a strong case for other religions not being right (truthful). For example, Christmas, the trinity, etc. However, the case for him and the CoG-PKG seems to be weekening as we move forward in time. If other religions are not truthful, and RW and CoG-PKG is not truthful, then is any religion truthful? Maybe we all need to read “The God Delusion”. In reading about RW and those for and against his version of truth, two things seem obvious: people want and need something to believe in; and it is impossible to truly know what, if anything, is truthful.

The core of apocalyptic faith is that this confusion will be sorted out with Christ’s second coming and the establishment of His Kingdom on earth. So far, RW’s prophesy and guidance has not shown us the truth, only hinted at it, then disappointed us.
on December 24, 2008 at 8:40 pm think-differently

Matthew 13:9 Who has ears to hear, let him hear.
Matthew 13:10 And the disciples came, and said to him, Why speak you to them in parables?
Matthew 13:11 He answered and said to them, Because it is given to you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
Matthew 13:12 For whosoever has, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever has not, from him shall be taken away even that he has.

If this makes sense to you, checkout – http://the-end.com/
on December 25, 2008 at 12:21 pm Jack

Jesus said:I am the way, the truth, and the life: no one comes to the Father, but by me. John 14:6

All churches should start changing their thinking and start reading the testimony of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, Son of the Living God.

Jesus Christ is the only name by which you can be saved. and
Whosoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.
on December 25, 2008 at 2:12 pm think-differently

Acts quote is taken from Joel.

Acts 2:21 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Joel 2:32 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call.

The remnant will follow cog-pkg’s Biblical information, coming from God, the Eternal One, through Jesus, our messiah, to Ron Weinland, God’s current prophet, who presents it to the church each Sabbath day. Older sermons, going back to 2001, are available, along with links to Weinland books and articles and H W Armstrong’s books and articles. Check out: http://www.cog-pkg.org/audio/ – for sermons, etc.
on December 27, 2008 at 8:27 pm Citizen X

Mal said:

It can be shown using Bible records (ages of all the patriarchs which the Holy Spirit was careful to include) that we are indeed at around the 6000 year point from Adam. Note this does not mean the earth is 6000 years old.

Therefore I believe we are approx at the point when God’s two witnesses can be expected.

So I am not yet writing off Ronald Weinland. He has said some things which the traditional Christian church will find controversial but that doesn’t rule him out. He deserves more time.

Well said. The time has not yet come. For the others, this is not a place to promote atheism(The God Delusion) or declarations of false prophethood. Declarations will come in time. If any persist in these actions, punitive measures will be taken.
on December 28, 2008 at 5:56 am carmel

Greetings all.

Citizen x Glad to see you again…

It is fast approaching the last few days to 2008 …..I believe spectacular things are happening … I find it hard to believe that Christians will be written off so to speak if they aren’t observing RW’s criteria in his church….as it is the Holy Spirit that guides us …salvation is from God ….….
Just think it has taken the True Church so long to come to this point …. Matt 23:37 O Jerusalem, who kills the prophets & stones to death those sent to her! ( How often I wanted to gather your children together as a hen gathers her chickens under her wings but, ye would not.) Jesus is saying that he loves the Church and would want to gather believers….. Point about other christian religions …eg. any denomination church with true hearts …etc. I believe that at the right time all will eventuate to a one unified Church….I fine it hard to fathom this in respect to so many churches…..looking at this spiritually it takes another meaning if you understand this relates to end time events………………
on December 29, 2008 at 10:28 am rlee64

In looking into many different faiths and belief systems over the years (as I believe I was inspired to do – especially when I was going through a lot of literature written by Mr. Armstrong) I’ve found that most modern faiths trace their roots back to the industrialization of agriculture – which occurred about 6000 years ago.

Fossil evidence indicates that “man” in his modern incarnation has been around for – eh – roughly 50,000 years or so. We just didn’t get good at ‘writing stuff down’ till we got good at developing free time for ourselves to do so. And have you noticed that the stories of some (seemingly unrelated) faiths overlap? (I.e. Noah and Gilgamesh – of which Gilgamesh is the older recorded tale.)

My question is – does God’s plan include man before ‘recorded’ history – or are they just dust? I would argue that “The Garden” refers to pre-industrialized agriculture when man’s primary faith was (in our modern terms) animism – wherein “God” is seen as being through all and in all and the provider of all. Even one’s own existence was seen as inextricably tied to everything – as God is everything. It wasn’t till we abandoned that belief system (ate of the fruit of the tree of knwoledge of good and evil) and embraced industrialized agriculture that redemption and salvation become necessary.

Prior to his falling asleep, Mr. Armstrong was focusing a lot on that particular time period in history and was discussing the two tress frequently. Personally – I believe a ‘witness’ to be those who are still living “in the garden” so to speak. Those peoples who have not abandoned the way of life that Adam and Eve (who are am allegory) lived prior to their expulsion from the Garden.

When our industrialized world comes to a grinding halt – and a massive die off occurs in humanity due to being dependent on the technologies we’ve created, who will be best suited to survive through all of it? Those who’ve never left the ways of the Garden.

Just a thought . . . .
on December 29, 2008 at 6:32 pm think-differently

For all people who are interested in the truth, check out: http://www.the-end.com/

When you are ready to set aside what people think and put God up front, observe the Sabbath by listening to Ron Weinland on Saturdays, and follow true Biblical teachings that are provided by http://www.cog-pkg.org, these web sites are open to you.
on December 31, 2008 at 1:48 am Adam 2487

Hey Truth Seeker are you in the church? Either way, if you have an Aim account shoot me and IM at MrRogers724 or email me at goldberg6763@yahoo.com Id like to talk to you
on January 5, 2009 at 4:23 pm So Thankful

Just stopped in for a look as I have not frequented this site in some time as I know I am not able to prove to anyone what God has proven to me. Only God can and does make himself known to those HE chooses.

think-differently – You, of all people on here should know that if God is not drawing someone then do not cast your pearls.

As for the last post – Kevin – you stated “Jesus was more concerned with the observance of love rather than observing the sabbath and stacking money into the coffers of the temple priests.”

God’s Love (Agape) can only be lived through us IF we keep his Commandments.
The Sabbath is one of his Commandments.

The “love” that you are speaking of is not God’s love.

If you think you can function in God’s Love and NOT keep his Commandments then you are deceived. Period. That “love” is not from God and is in fact demonic.

Just calling it what it is.
on January 5, 2009 at 5:47 pm angel

Kevin,

This isn’t a blog where you’re encouraged to speak your mind; it’s a safe haven for Weinland followers and undecideds. It’s obvious you’re not a follower and you don’t sound like the average undecided so you may want to consider, if you haven’t already, joining a blog where there are people who are like-minded or that allows you to say what you really believe without fear of being banned for doing so.

As So Thankful pointed out with the comment about casting pearls, there comes a time when you have to shake the dust off your feet… Jesus never forced anyone to listen to Him, and neither should we.

Most of the pro-Weinland people have retreated from the other blogs; this probably is one of the only places they can share their thoughts online where people aren’t challenging them to support their beliefs. I look in occasionally to see if Citizen X has written any new articles and/or made a decision on whether he believes Mr. Weinland is God’s prophet or not; I’m interested to hear his perspective on any new statements and/or developments in Mr. Weinland’s predictions and ministry.
on January 5, 2009 at 8:09 pm think-differently

I don’t have to prove my point – my point means nothing. God’s point, on the other hand …

For all people who are interested in the truth, check out: http://www.the-end.com/

When you are ready to set aside what people think and put God up front, observe the Sabbath by listening to Ron Weinland on Saturdays, and follow true Biblical teachings that are provided by http://www.cog-pkg.org, these web sites are open to you.
on January 6, 2009 at 1:17 am Citizen X

Regardless of your opinion on Ronald Weinland’s validity, understand The Weinland Witness’ policy. It is an avenue of discussion strictly for Weinland believers and undecideds.

If you are a Weinland-hater, or have already declared him a false prophet, do not bother commenting. There are many places that will welcome your perspective. This is not one of them.

The time has not yet come. Patience is a virtue. Many times, we wish for things to happen quickly. The Bible teaches temperance, long-suffering. These are qualities that can be cultivated regardless of whether you believe Weinland is a true prophet or not.

Those that speak early and make loud, brash declarations tend to end up looking like fools. It is quite inexplicable how many people understand TWW’s policy towards Weinland-haters and attempt to influence the discussion anyways. It is an exercise in futility.

Let us keep the discussion clear and free of distractions. The time has not yet come, but it is swiftly approaching. The Bible said, Be slow to speak, and quick to hear. It is advice I would recommend to everyone.
on January 6, 2009 at 6:38 am carmel

Hey Guys, Happy New Year…

2 Tim 2:15 Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
on January 6, 2009 at 8:54 pm Jack

Citizen X

I think you have been fair in the use of your authority. I’ve witnessed you give alot of lattitude with some of the questionable commentors. Sometimes I don’t leave a comment because I don’t want to tip toe around a contentious commentor.

Going forward, I’d like to say that wisdom pops up often on this blog. Your latest comment is an example of this.

“Those that speak early and make loud, brash declarations tend to end up looking like fools.”
That is so true, not just on this blog, but life in general.
on January 7, 2009 at 12:45 pm think-differently

“The Seven Thunders will be the beginning evidence that my words are true.”

“The question about how God has revealed His truth to me is a fair one. The answer that I am who I say I am will be given by the events described in both books coming true exactly as I have described. This will be the proof that I am God’s end-time witness and spokesman.”

– quotes from “2008-God’s Final Witness” that can be accepted through the reading (in humility) of this book.

For all people who are interested in the truth, check out: http://www.the-end.com/

When you are ready to set aside what people think and put God up front, observe the Sabbath by listening to Ron Weinland on Saturdays, and follow true Biblical teachings that are provided by http://www.cog-pkg.org, these web sites are open to you.
on January 8, 2009 at 6:06 am carmel

I have been a Christian all my life…….I was brought up RC & have been in UC, westminister Presbyterian, Baptist, a few charismatic churches…..

The bible is the pure inspired word of God unchanged from the foundation of the world.

It is not good enough to fall short of observances…expect people to follow blindly it is better not to forecast anything in prophecy that is not inspired by God … etc especially if it doesn’t come true…then say oh that part was spiritual not literally…eg. The two end time witnesses…. how does RW know that he shouldn’t be literately in sackcloth so that is spiritual too…..Is he really one of the two end time witnesses……??
Eg… I heard the RW said men don’t have souls…… everyone has a soul whether corrupt of incorrupt….and eg. the Rapture mentioned above here….how does he expect me to believe this when scripture states otherwise……..there is a rapture of the church and a rapture of the elect……..I can prove this………

The Church is God’s not man made… 1Cor 3:4 For while one saith, I am of Paul and another I am of Apollos…….1 Cor 3:11 For other foundation can no man lay then that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 1Cor 4:6 And these things, brethren, I have in a figure transferred to myself and to Apollos for your sakes: that ye might learn in us not to think of men above that which is written, that no one of you be puffed up for one against another.

I would hesitate in saying that RW is a false prophet. I would have to say he is over zealous in his teachings.
on January 8, 2009 at 2:23 pm Jack

there is a rapture of the church and a rapture of the elect……..I can prove this………

The word rapture is not in the bible.
on January 9, 2009 at 6:39 pm rlee64

Mr. Weinland’s statement about souls isn’t new. There are other faiths out there that state the same. Mr. Armstrong (founder of the WCG) also stated such. The word “soul” comes from the Hebrew ‘nephesh’ which literally means “living being” – in that sense, all living things are souls. In Ecclesiastes it states that man and beast share the same breath and are subject to the same fate upon death. One has no advantage over the other.

The concept of an immortal soul is not Judeo-Christian in origin. It coems from other faiths in the area at the time (specifically Egypt) and was ‘adopted’ by the early Catholic Church as a tenet. I mean – pergatory was a pretty profitable thing for them what with the living buying their ancestors outta pergatory right?

As far as the “rapture” goes – the word isn’t used in the bible. The term ‘caught up in the air’ is – but not rapture, and certainly not a “pre-apocolyptic” rapture.

We’re 11 days away from inauguration. It’s my understanding that Mr. Weinland had stated that a new president will not be seated. Although someone alluded to him adding a caveat to that statement? And if so – what does that mean?
on January 10, 2009 at 7:06 am Charity

Mr Weinland said that he didn’t think that a new president would be seated. It was not stated as a prophesy and it was his opinion at a time when the Church still believed that Jesus Christ would return on Trumpets. This is what God corrected in the 50th Truth. Timing was then moved forward by about 8 months.
on January 18, 2009 at 11:11 am rlee64

Ok. Thanks for the clarification.
on February 9, 2009 at 12:25 am carmel

I have heard that RW says his time line for Jesus return is Pentecost now. So how can he change the time lines… ok mistaken dates? How can you say one thing and correct it in the next? How do u know that it is correct? God isn’t the author of confusion…this is just divisional… this is what I have been saying why predict actual dates if not absolutely sure? I can surely prove bibically why I have said this…….
on February 9, 2009 at 8:51 am think-differently

See (and listen to mp3 files noted) to http://www.cog-pkg.org/faq/topics.aspx#toc

God did not lie, nor did he provide Mr. Weinland with misinformation. If you want to know the truth, you have to humble yourself and repent (think differently) before God. Then, God will open your mind to know the truth.

Truth proves. Ron Weinland, as God’s witness, provides truth to us from God through our Christ, Jesus.
on February 9, 2009 at 9:12 am sojourner

Mr. thinkdifferently – Did Mr. Weinland say that there would be no president take office in 2009? I have read that he said that but from what you say, maybe he didn’t.

If he did predict that no president would be inauguirated then how do you say he did not speak misinformation?

Thanks, sojourner
on February 10, 2009 at 8:33 am South Africa 28

If you really want to know whether we are in the final 3 1/2 years, then go look for the truth, like I did.
http://www.cog-pkg.org/publications/50truths.aspx
Find the answer to your question yourself. I mean this is a very serious time we are in right now, no time to sit around grabbing tip bits of information from various people.
Ask God – and he will show you.
Just like he has shown so many of us now who have cried (literally) out to him to show us his truth and where he is in fact working…..
You got to work for it, salvation is not going to be given to you on a plate….
on February 10, 2009 at 11:06 am rlee64

“You got to work for it, salvation is not going to be given to you on a plate….”

WHAT?!

So you’re saying that we can become worthy of God’s grace? Ya think Mr. Weinland would agree with you? That somehow we can become righteous enough through works that we can be saved?

Or did you mean to phrase that a little differently perhaps?
on February 10, 2009 at 3:43 pm South Africa 28

I mean, work for it, by putting effort into searching for what the truth is……putting efford into forming a relationship with God, by obeying his commandments, repenting everyday asking God to guide you to the truth as you look for it, asking him to show you is it right what you are seeing and believing right now……that’s what I mean.
When I read the book 2008 God’s Final Witness, I knew it was the truth, God gave it to me in the mind. But that was just the begining of my journey, which I am still on, and will be for the rest of my life. Listening to every sabbath sermon plus going back to old ones posted etc…..trying to be a deciple, so that God can teach me, if I am wrong. I just see some people asking if what they heard about Mr Weinland was true, but I wish they would be motivated enough to go and search out the answer for themselves with the help of God instead.
on February 10, 2009 at 3:48 pm South Africa 28

“So you’re saying that we can become worthy of God’s grace? Ya think Mr. Weinland would agree with you? That somehow we can become righteous enough through works that we can be saved?”

Wow, I dont even know how you got this from what I said?

No you can not become righteous through works and be saved! Only by God’s grace, if he blesses a person with it, I can do nothing without God, my wage is death, as I am a sinner! Nothing more and nothing less…….
on February 10, 2009 at 4:12 pm South Africa 28

I must apologise for my words.
It was a selfish inwards emotional reaction to what I had been reading and I should never have acted on it.
Please forgive me if I have upset anyone.
on February 10, 2009 at 9:58 pm Jack

“I can do nothing without God, my wage is death, as I am a sinner! ”

The wages of sin is death, but the good gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Anyone who repents of their sin will be forgiven by Jesus, so you should be happy and at peace if you have repented.
on February 11, 2009 at 6:22 am carmel

The audio (The 50th Truth) I must follow God in what he has shown me….. I agree…so I too don’t have to repent.

Titus 2:11-15

11 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men, teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age, looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, who gave Himself for us, that He might redeem us from every lawless deed and purify for Himself His own special people, zealous for good works.
Speak these things, exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no one despise you.
on February 11, 2009 at 5:59 pm think-differently

I feel sorry for anyone who has not been called, but they’ll have a chance in the next 3 years 4 months to humble themselves and repent. Otherwise, they’ll be given the opportunity to humble themselves and repent in a little over 1000 years.

For those who are interested in the truth, I suggest you humble yourself before God, and start thinking differently – repent. Then, as God calls you, the http://www.cog-pkg.org website will tell you, what you will then recognize as, the truth.
on February 11, 2009 at 8:19 pm rlee64

SA 28

What you said about salvatio not being handed to you on a plate and being worked for struck me as odd. I’m glad to hear how you amended your statement.
on February 12, 2009 at 5:21 pm Jack

carmel

“I have heard that RW says his time line for Jesus return is Pentecost now.”

No. I am sure he said Jesus is to return on Trumpets. I’ll go to the website, check, and get back to you.
on February 12, 2009 at 5:40 pm Jack

Sorry, I was wrong. I checked the website and here it is word for word from the topic Christ’s Return:

“God has revealed to His Church the exact timing for the return of Jesus Christ, which is on Pentecost (May 27) of 2012″

I guess I should have looked it up before I spoke. RW said 1335 days from Trumpets. I guess that’s where I got the Trumpets idea. Once again, sorry for the confusion.
on February 13, 2009 at 10:18 pm Truthseeker

Hi all. It’s been a while. All I have to say is the Truth is the Truth and it can only be given to us by the Eternal Creator God and He only can give it to us if we are humble, contrite and seeking it by praying continually. I am so sick of men (and women) who have some or little truth and confuses that with all truth/salvation. There is a reason why we have a nagging feeling in the back of our mind. We are not there yet. We may be on the right path or we might be lost in the woods, yet non of us are there yet. We would do better spending more time seeking, praying and fasting. If we are are lucky enough to find the right path (to be called), we only start to see how far we are from the ways of God.

Peace
on February 14, 2009 at 2:02 am carmel

Truthseeker

You are young. You say

Truth is the Truth and it can only be given to us by the Eternal Creator God and He only can give it to us if we are humble, contrite and seeking it by praying continually.

I don’t see that you are humble in your thinking it does depend what your truth is …..there are many deceivers out there…..

You say
I am so sick of men (and women) who have some or little truth and confuses that with all truth/salvation.
Who are you to judge this how do you know them that is being like a pharisee

You say
If we are are lucky enough to find the right path (to be called), we only start to see how far we are from the ways of God.
There is no luck with God it is predestination and election.
Yes and some can be very far from God but it is not for you to judge…
on February 14, 2009 at 6:23 am think-differently

Truth IS truth, and God IS the source.

Humility is with God, not with man.

Judgment belongs to the Father, but we are expected to live by His judgment, and judge according to His will.

In humbling ourselves, we beg God for mercy. If we truly seek mercy, it shall be granted. There is predetermination, but God will only act based on our election to belong to Him.

For truth, humble yourself and seek God. He is found with His church of people, the body of Christ. His will and explanation of it, when it can be understood, is found through the Church of God – Preparing for the Kingdom of God. The website and Sabbath services can be found on http://www.cog-pkg.org
on February 16, 2009 at 4:12 am carmel

think differently…..

all truth will be found in the Church of God…yes you have the key to find truth through humility. All truth is with God the Father.. and only according to his will be granted that it is released to the “body of Christ. ” I am not fully convinced that this “church “you speak about has all “truth” as Jesus said to Peter “And I tell you that you Peter, on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it”.. There are many churches out there ….through faith we overcome ….who will be found with faith?

and …..if Your church is the only one how can u say that.. there are many churches in the world?
on February 16, 2009 at 4:43 am carmel

Jack

“God has revealed to His Church the exact timing for the return of Jesus Christ, which is on Pentecost (May 27) of 2012″

has anyone got insight on Rev12
on February 16, 2009 at 8:38 am think-differently

For Rev 12 – see http://www.cog-pkg.org/faq/topics.aspx#toc

Rev 12:9 is mentioned twice.
on February 16, 2009 at 8:45 am think-differently

As Ron Weinland has said, the Church of God – PKG does not have ALL truth. But when and as it is received, doctrine, etc, is corrected, and the body of Christ goes on. We get closer and closer to ALL truth by repenting – changing our minds and acting accordingly.
on February 16, 2009 at 4:05 pm Mal

I have read both of RW’s books and found them convincing enough to start listening to his weekly Sabbath services. He is totally confident that he is one of the Scriptural end time witnesses, and I have found his case persuasive enough to keep listening.

In particular, the ‘50th truth’, that Jesus will return at Pentecost 2012, seems a remarkable numerical fit with Scripture.

However, so far there are some points which prevent me from coming fully on-board with RW and Church of God PKG.

1. His sermons are scathing of ‘traditional Christianity’ to the degree that he seems to be totally dismissive of all the millions of other Christians whose spirits have been awakened to our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

Surely God is working in their lives too, and not just in the lives of members of the Church of God PKG? I agree with RW that we should keep God’s Sabbaths. However, RW seems to put emphasis on this to an extraordinary degree, almost as if our very salvation depended on it.

When I recently contacted Church of God PKG I was advised to ‘flee’ from my current church, as if nothing good happened there at all.

2. The fact that he says his wife is the other witness would be ok with me except that I have never heard (or read) one word from her. Surely she should be speaking by now since he says we are now inside the last three and a half years ?

3. To my knowledge, excluding the global financial crisis, none of his prophecies have yet come to pass.

On the James Whale interview (which can be heard on Church of God PKG website), he prophesied that devastation to the land would occur in the USA and parts of Canada after the blowing of the first trumpet. Then, 45-90 days later, the second trumpet would blow and there would be terrorist nuclear strikes in USA port cities.

In his last few sermons he has been saying he doesn’t know when the second trumpet will blow and also that it is possible nothing at all will be seen in the physical realm from the first or second trumpets over the rest of this year.

4. His prophecy from his book that there would be a notable rise in deaths of leaders of other churches and also that there would be an escalation of deaths of world personalities has also not yet come to pass.

In conclusion, I am still interested in RW and will continue to listen to the sermons and to watch the situation. The so-called ‘50th truth’ that Jesus will return on Pentecost 2012 does seem a remarkable numerical fit with Scripture.

However, questions remain for me regarding Church of God PKG and whether RW and his wife could possibly be the Scriptural two end time witnesses.
on February 16, 2009 at 9:02 pm sojourner

mal

you are asking many of the same questions I have.

how do you answer the scripture that says no one knows the hour of Jesus return?

thank you sojourner
on February 16, 2009 at 10:45 pm Jack

Carmel:

I think I am starting to get confused now. You said RW originally prophesied Jesus was to come on Trumpets and now supposed to come on pentecost. Sojourner says “no one knows the hour of Jesus return“.

Although I agree with some of the things that RW says when he is reading the scripture, other things he has said are way out in left field. I always have to rely on the testimony of Jesus Christ. That is the truth that cannot be hidden. After all he did say:

Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my word shall never pass away.
on February 17, 2009 at 4:21 am South Africa 28

Hi Mal,

I see you have some concerns about Mr Weinland.

My question is have you asked God, if Mr Weinland is his end time prophet and the one telling us the truth?
on February 17, 2009 at 4:29 am carmel

I thought the same with that scripture ” no one knows the hour of Jesus return” in that time line (frame)…although mal said it seems to fit time frames….the pentacost theory….I too am not convinced of RW theories
this is what I have said
I have heard that RW says his time line for Jesus return is Pentecost now. So how can he change the time lines… ok mistaken dates? How can you say one thing and correct it in the next? How do u know that it is correct? God isn’t the author of confusion…this is just divisional… this is what I have been saying why predict actual dates if not absolutely sure? I can surely prove bibically why I have said this…….
yeah and talk about confusion …so much info
Truthseeker says if everyone repents they shall know the truth…..
on February 17, 2009 at 5:19 am carmel

I have a couple of areas I will bring forward soon which I am not completely sure.. one eg. is

RW attitude with this

However, one woman has been chosen by God to be a prophet in this end-time, as well as one of His two witnesses as explained in the topic, “Witnesses – 2.” When it comes to government in God’s Church, she will be over all ministers in the final 1260 days before Christ’s return (except those final 3 1/2 days). The only exception to this is that she will not be over the other end-time prophet who is God’s spokesman and physical pastor of His Church
(who is RW)… but I don’t see any humility… because she will be basically equivalent to him

when does she appear in the sequence of events…in the 1,335 days and 1,260 days and does Rev 12:1 have some meaning here are this can be interupted different ways…. I can explain more if needed……..
on February 17, 2009 at 9:33 am sojourner

South Africa:

I asked the Lord for a witness about RW and he gave me these verses.

Deut. 18:21-22

“You may say in your heart, ‘How will we know the word which the LORD has not spoken?’

“When a prophet speaks in the name of the LORD, if the thing does not come about or come true, that is the thing which the LORD has not spoken. The prophet has spoken it presumptuously; you shall not be afraid of him.

This is why I asked about what RW said about the President and other predictions he made.
on February 17, 2009 at 9:35 am think-differently

Some of you people have made up your minds that Ron Weinland is not who he says he is – you do not belong on this blog.

For those who are truly fence-sitters, I continue to tell you that you must humble yourself before God (not man) and repent of your sins – especially the ten commandments, including the Sabbath requirement – think differently, change your way of thinking and doing, and then God will show you the truth. You will not know, or even be able to determine what is, truth, until such time.

Then, when you go to http://www.cog-pkg.org, you will know the truth.
on February 17, 2009 at 10:04 am sojourner

Mr. think-differently – Why would you believe RW over the Bible when it says, you need not respect a prophet who speaks presumptuously (which he admitted he did) – I just read it on the website you gave to us.

Sure he can be forgiven but this verse in Deut. seems to say there is no fear (respect) he is due.

In my quest for truth, I have come to this place and plain words seem to lead away from Mr. Weinland as a prophet. Some of you believe he is. I have asked God as you have advised and he gave me those verses and now RW even agrees that he was speaking presumptuously. By his words and the words of God (two witnesses) the truth shall be revealed.
on February 17, 2009 at 1:58 pm Mal

Sojourner

People often pick on Jesus’ words that “nobody knows the day or the hour” to write off any kind of prediction for the Lord’s return. For the following reasons I believe that in our day it is reasonable for God to reveal the time of Christ’s return through a genuine prophet (this may or may not be Ronald Weinland).

1) When Jesus said “nobody knows the day or the hour” it was true for that time, but we are now 2000 years further on.

2) Daniel was told the meaning of his prophecies about 1335,1290,1260 etc was reserved for the ‘time of the end’ (which is our time).

3) Amos 3:7 says “God does nothing unless He reveals His secret to His servants the prophets”.

4) Apostle Paul said in 1 Thess 5:1-6 “But concerning the times and seasons, brethren, you have no need that I should write to you. For you yourselves know perfectly that the Day of the Lord comes as a thief in the night. For when they say “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labour pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape. BUT YOU, BRETHREN, ARE NOT IN DARKNESS SO THAT THIS DAY SHOULD OVERTAKE YOU AS A THIEF. You are all sons of the light and sons of the day. We are not of the night nor of darkness. Therefore, let us not sleep, as others do, but let us watch and be sober.”

Carmel

Regarding RW changing his prediction for the Lord’s return to Pentecost 2012, I feel there is some justification . If you follow the sequence of events below, it seems RW’s humanity played a part in the original prediction, and then it appears that God put him right by giving him the last piece of the jigsaw (the so-called 50th truth).

1. RW claims God told him that he was to be one of the two end times witnesses who would speak on behalf of Him for three and a half years (1260 days) before Christ’s return (Rev 11:3), and directed him to write the book ‘2008 God’s Final Witness’.

2. RW then made the assumption that Christ would return on Festival of Trumpets 2011 ( a fair assumption since many familiar with the Lord’s seven festivals in Leviticus 23 believe Jesus will return on the Festival of Trumpets; the year was 2011 because if you step back the prophesied 1335 days of Daniel 12 it brings you back to 2008).

3. So by stepping back from the 2011 Festival of Trumpets, RW announced that the 1335 countdown to Christ’s return would start Feb 2nd 2008 and the 1260 days (blowing of the first trumpet of the Great Tribulation) would be April 17th 2008. These dates went by and RW admitted he had made a wrong assumption. This understandably led most to dismiss him as a false prophet.

4. However, RW claims God confirmed to him that the book ‘2008 God’s Final Witness’ was entirely valid and then appears to have given him the last piece of the jigsaw.

5. The actual countdown to Christ’s return (the 1335 days of Daniel 12) would begin at the 2008 Festival of Trumpets on Sept 30th. Christ’s return to earth would be on Pentecost 2012. THE TIME BETWEEN THESE TWO FESTIVALS IS PRECISELY 1335 DAYS.

6. In the other direction, from Festival of Trumpets 2008 back to Satan’s false Festival of Christmas 2007 IS PRECISELY 280 DAYS (40 SABBATHS). God’s number for judgement is 40, highlighting Satan’s impending judgement when Christ returns and he is locked up for 1000 years.

This now seems a remarkable fit with Scripture and the change of RW’s original dates is reasonable for me.

However, I am not yet fully on board with RW as the prophesies he made on the James Whale Show have not happened yet (I recommend listening to it on the Church of God PKG website). Also the other items listed in my last entry are not satisfactorily answered for me yet.
on February 17, 2009 at 2:17 pm sojourner

mal – You didn’t address my concern about a presumptuous prophet who need not be feared (respected). Why would RW get a different response?

And we apparently have been in the last days since the time of Paul. I do not understand why Jesus words would have been true then and not now.
on February 17, 2009 at 8:58 pm Mal

sojourner

I agree the presumptuous prophet thing is an arguable point. I can only say that because the last dates he came up with are a remarkable numerical fit with Scripture it has kept me interested.

Regarding whether or not we can know the timing of Jesus’ Second Coming in our day, I believe it is Scripturally sound to say we can (see the Scriptures I quoted). I consider the Scriptures apply no matter how you define ‘last days’.

South Africa 28

I have taken Ronald Weinland very seriously and, yes, I have been praying over the past several months for God to confirm whether this is the truth or a deception. I don’t feel I have had a clear answer yet.
on February 18, 2009 at 12:32 am carmel

Think differently

You are the most legalistic person I have come across on this blog you always refer to the sermons of RW instead of you own observations ….. We are here to learn and understand a few points ….you seem always underseize if someone questions about RW …then tell everyone to leave ..when they aren’t saying what u think they r saying
have u heard the scripture …anyone who welcomes you welcomes me and welcomes the one who sent me does that come to mind….we are all believers here on life’s journey
on February 18, 2009 at 2:35 am truthbeliever12

I understand why many people feel the way they do about about the Church of God or are just even on the fence about things. The answer as to why people from inside the Church hold on to the things we do is plain and simple. It’s truth. It’s the truth God opens our ears to hear. God reveals sin in a LIFELONG process to the lives of people he works with. We repent of those sins (which is where the faith lyes), and we continue in his way of life (that is where the works lye).
There are many reasons to discredit RW from the outside (quite frankly I would be one of them), thats because people look and hear with their physical eyes and ears. But the people whom God is working with trust in what the Lord has given us. It’s where the truth is. If we ever have doubts to where God is we are becoming weaker spiritually. When God reveals “lust of the eyes, lust of the flesh, and the pride of life” in this process, it becomes easier to see these attitudes are in the of lives people in all other religions. We can’t imagine turning back to sin, so we trust in the Lord and if He tells us to turn left, we turn left(and it’s not pride, He has already proven in our lives He is hear). See God is of one truth, therefore he cannot be in two different faiths. I cannot give this to anyone because again, they will take it in with their physical eyes. God must do the calling through the power of the Holy Spirit. Remember, people exchange presents when the prophets die for a reason, and it’s not because they were well liked and agreed with.
on February 18, 2009 at 3:40 am South Africa 28

Hi sojourner,

Could you please tell me where you saw Mr Weinland say he acted presumptuously?

It is just I understood him to say in his sermons (once God began revealing that Jesus return was not going to be Trumpets 2011 like the church believed for many years, but Pentecost 2012 instead) that he had not acted presumptuously as God knew what he believed in his mind for many years (the whole of World Wide Church of God believed that Jesus was to return on Trumpets) and thus knew what date Mr Weinland would believe Jesus to return on if God gave him the title to the book he was to write as “2008 God’s final Witness”.

I feel God used this to weed out people who had come to the church to save themselves. As quite a few left just before the 50th truth was given. I battled for two days and then was convinced once again I was where the truth was. Not because of what Mr Weinland had said or the bible, but because of how my life had turned 180 degrees since Feb 2008 when I read the book 2008 God’s Final Witness. God blessed me in not having to go through the doubts and having to prove things. It was just so clear in my mind, I cannot explain it.

Of course I have battled concerns since then, but I just grow stronger as time goes by. I look at the 50 truths given to the church by God and I can say I agree 100% with them, so that is how I know I am in the right place.

The president prediction was Mr Weinland thinking in his head that if the first trumpet is blown in April. 6 months from there America would have collapsed or started too, so he said a president would not be able to take office. However when the 50th truth was revealed that obviously changed things.

You should listen to the sermons on the website. I get a lot of conviction going back and listening to the sermons from 2001 till now. To see how God has worked through Mr Weinland and the small remnant he awakened after the apostasy.

Hi Mal,

I am sorry to hear that you still do not have a clear answer.
The reason I asked that question is because I was so lucky as I had come to the time in my life that when God revealed his truth to me I was so ready to receive it.
It was such a complete opposite to what I knew whilst being a Baptist.
It made such logical sense for the first time in my life. I could embrace God and his good news, before that God was such a enigma, far off from me, same for Jesus and the bible. I have never understood the bible. I can read a verse and it means nothing? So I rely on a minister to translate for me, and no one has done it as clear and precisely as Mr Weinland.

All the best.
on February 18, 2009 at 5:56 am carmel

I live in australia and know many good australians and I don’t take kindly to comments of this radical way off anti australian preacher in america Fred Phelps and daughter Shirley who say they are Baptists but news reports say they are from a cult who hate people and want Australians to die mercy that is totally antichrist……all I can say is Get behind me satan….
on February 18, 2009 at 9:35 am sojourner

South Africa

It is on his website here (http://ronaldweinland.com/?p=76):

Although there is a marked increase in the thunders, there is still no physical evidence in the trumpets. And even though I have stated July 16 as a kind of deadline for the Second Trumpet, I am now deeply convinced that nothing concerning the trumpets will have occurred by that time.

This is not pleasant to have to address, as all of us have planned our lives on such timing. If the second trumpet sounds, with nuclear explosions in port cities, then everything will indeed be fully in line with what I’ve stated in the last interviews and in some sermons. But I do want to state again, I no longer believe that to be the case.

The bottom line is, I must follow what I believe God is showing me. If I have jumped the gun in a couple of interviews and interjected my own understanding into the timing of events, and have thereby been presumptuous, then I will repent and move forward.

In my opinion, he is not definite. He says, “If I have jumped the gun…” This does not sound like a clear admission but a waffling approach. However, it is clear as I read through these websites that he did make predictions that did not come true. Did he repent? We don’t know. Even if he did, he has disqualified himself as someone we should fear (respect) by his presumptuous actions according to Deut. 18.
on February 18, 2009 at 1:00 pm Convinced

Sojourner,

South Africa plainly said in their post that the new info was given in the 50th Truth sermon.

Did you go and LISTEN to that sermon?

You’ve dug up a post that he made some two months before God revealed what we needed to know when he gave that 50th truth sermon.

Obviously things have changed since that sermon was given————–or are you posting simply to be contrary?

Having said that, it quite obvious you’re not convinced he speaks the truth.

So why keep beating yourself over the head if you’re not convinced what you read and hear is not of the truth?
on February 18, 2009 at 3:02 pm think-differently

As previously stated, some of you do not belong on this blog. It is for members of the body of Christ and fence sitters.

It is obvious from several messages posted here, that humility before God has not taken place. “In my opinion” is not a statement made from God’s point of view, but from a pride-filled heart. My opinion is not important, except when it is aligned with God’s. Church members and the truly interested in truth do not spend much time at all on this blog. I am only here to direct those interested in truth to humble themselves before God, repent, in other words think and do differently, and seek the truth through http://www.cog-pkg.org. Especially the FAQs pages.

Until you humble yourself, do not expect to find truth, you won’t.
on February 18, 2009 at 3:27 pm carmel

sojourer

There were many prophets in the Old Testament who sinned before God and were forgiven…..noone is perfect….although in saying that we are allowed to test the spirit …..RW is a minister of a Church and as I have said here before I would hesitate in saying he is a false prophet. There is no condemination in Christ Jesus I wouldn’t hesitate in saying that I agree with think-differently although there are still many churches out there to fellowship.
on February 18, 2009 at 3:45 pm sojourner

Carmel – My knowledge of Scripture is not what it should be I guess, although I am learning a lot through this.

I understand that all sin but is there a place in OT times where a prophet of God was wrong in his prophecy? I understand they sinned but was their sin offering an incorrect prophecy? Please help me out here.

I am not condemning Mr. Weinland by saying since he was wrong he is not a Christian or might not be right about other things. But he claims to be a prophet of God who speaks what God is showing him. Deut 18 makes it seem to me that whatever other value his teachings might have, they are not to feared as prophetic.

Although I am open to hearing about other OT prophets that made false predictions and remained prophets.
on February 18, 2009 at 5:19 pm So Thankful

So, how is everyone doing in respect to the battle?

Reading the previous posts it is evident that minds are under intense attack. Did you expect this to be easy? Is the truth worth fighting for? At what cost? Are you at that place where you understand that God will not just give his truth out freely to whosoever? Has God broken you yet to the point where he only matters? Have you been brought to nothing yet? Do you see how wretched you really are? All pride utterly crushed?

Just a little reminder of the starting place to walking in the revelation of God’s truth.
on February 18, 2009 at 5:36 pm carmel

Sojourner
The Prophet Must Be Called.
Unlike the offices of king and priest, the office of a prophet was not inherited by being born into a prophetic family or tribe. The son of a prophet did not automatically receive a commission as a prophet. Rather, God individually selected and called each prophet to a specific work that God wanted accomplished
Moses received the call at the burning bush (Exod. 3:4).
•Isaiah responded to the divine call through a vision he had of the Lord high and lifted up in the temple (Isa. 6:1-8).
•Jeremiah was called by God as a prophet while still in his mother’s womb (Jer. 1:5).
•Ezekiel was called by God near the Kebar River in Babylon (Ezek. 1:1;2:2-3).
•Amos remembers his call in Amos 7:14-15.
The Prophet Must Be Courageous.
In light of the rigors and responsibility of this office, the prophet had to be a special kind of person. The prophet had to be a bold, fearless individual. He had to be able to handle both persecution and praise, both accolades and antagonism.

Samuel’s first task as a prophet was to inform the high priest Eli that God had rejected his house (1 Sam. 3:4-18).
•Nathan had to confront King David about his sin with Bathsheba (2 Sam. 12:1-12).
•God gave David a choice of three punishments for his sinful census (2 Sam. 24:10-17).
•Elijah warned King Ahab of a terrible drought and famine (1 Kings 17:1).
•Jonah called the wicked city of Nineveh to repentance (Jon. 1:2; 3:1-2).
Biblical prophets foretold the future with 100 percent accuracy and announced the coming Messiah, the coming of Antichrist, and the end of the world. This aspect of the prophet’s ministry is often called “foretelling.” The prophet was God’s mouthpiece and spokesman for predicting and previewing the future of Israel and other nations.
Interestingly, the first two kings of Israel, Saul and David, were also prophets. But the two roles even in that day were clearly separate. The prophet Samuel confronted Saul about his disobedience (1 Sam. 15:13-23), and the prophet Nathan confronted David when he committed murder and adultery (2 Sam. 12:1-12).
The prophets served as watchmen among the people. God raised up the prophets to point out the people’s religious apostasy and to trumpet forth warnings of judgment for the people’s failure to turn from idolatry.
The prophets served as intercessors for God’s people. While the priests were the primary intercessors, offering sacrifices for the people, the prophets also assumed this role, apart from sacrificial and ceremonial activity. ( Remember OT observances.)There are numerous instances of prophets praying for the needs of people.

Have to go now breakfast in australia here
on February 18, 2009 at 5:40 pm sojourner

carmel – maybe you are going to write more but what I wondered about was an incorrect prophetic utterance. You said they were 100% correct and that is what I thought. The Deut 18 passage would seem to disqualify Mr. Weinland from being a biblical prophet, right?

He could surely be other things (preacher, advisor, teacher) but not a prophet who has foretold that which must be feared, right?
on February 18, 2009 at 5:43 pm sojourner

PS – Citizen – what did you mean by this?

As with any self-proclaimed prophet, they are either true or false. Eventually, they reach a point where their words must either be fulfilled or disproven. The end of 2008 will mark that turning point for Ronald Weinland.
on February 18, 2009 at 6:11 pm think-differently

From http://www.cog-pkg.org:

Prophet – proof of
The belief that Ronald Weinland is indeed God’s end time prophet and one of the two witnesses can only be given from God. For 25 years, Ronal Weinland has been a minister in God’s Church. In 1997, God made him a prophet for this end-time. His responsibility, as a prophet, is to reveal the meaning of prophecies that God has preserved for this time now. As the events written in the book 2008 God’s Final Witness unfold, the world will increasingly become aware of the authenticity of the words in the book and realize that Ronald Weinland has been sent by God as His end-time prophet. Prophecies are understood and revealed through revelation to the mind by the power of God’s Holy Spirit.

Related sermon:
“Our Commission – Pt 1″ (February 7, 2009)

As stated previously, not many will believe he and his wife are the two end-time prophets, and they will exchange gifts when the two are finally dead.
on February 18, 2009 at 7:37 pm So Thankful

Carmel,
May I ask where you received that description of a called Prophet of God from?

It mentions absolutely nothing in respect to the most needed characteristic – humility.
on February 18, 2009 at 10:53 pm Mal

A lot has been said on this blog about ‘truth’. There is nothing I want more than ‘truth’, and I have been praying to God to show me the truth about Ronald Weinland.
I have read both books by RW as well as books/articles by Herbert W. Armstrong. I have listened to every Sabbath sermon for the last 9 months and many others stretching back to 2001.

I agree with ‘South Africa 28’ that RW puts forward an exceptionally coherent and persuasive interpretation of the Word of God. I have almost been ready to believe he is one of the two end time prophets. Although he is on his second set of predicted dates for Christ’s return, those new dates now fit remarkably well with Scripture, and even his reasons for changing seem reasonable to me.

To be honest, I would like Ronald Weinland to be who he says he is. The thought of our wonderful Lord Jesus Christ returning at Pentecost 2012 to transform this crumbling world would be the most exciting thing I could comprehend.

So why am I not ready to come fully on board with RW and Church of God PKG?

One major reason is he seems to have a scathing and dismissive attitude to all other Christians in churches except his own. This ‘exclusiveness’ bothers me.

To the people on this blog who ARE fully on board with RW (think-differently, South Africa 28, Truthbeliever12, So Thankful and others), I ask the following question:

Why is it that when I recently contacted Church of God PKG and expressed interest in RW and his prophecies that they advised me and my wife to ‘flee’ from our current church? Furthermore, they advised me to ‘flee’ on my own if my wife would not ‘flee’ with me.

To me the word ‘flee’ IMPLIES WE ARE IN SOME KIND OF DANGER UNLESS WE ARE IN THE CHURCH OF GOD PKG.

So where does that leave the millions of Christians like myself who have put their faith and trust in Jesus Christ as their Lord and Saviour through His shed blood to redeem us from our sins. People whose lives have been transformed by the Holy Spirit. People who are aware we are in the last days and longing for Christ’s return.

Scripture tells us that salvation is the FREE GIFT of God, the Holy Spirit coming as God’s GUARANTEE to ALL THAT HAVE FAITH in the shed blood of Christ paying the penalty for our sins (2Cor1:22).

AS I READ SCRIPTURE, ALL THAT HAVE FAITH IN CHRIST AND HAVE THE TRANSFORMING POWER OF THE SPIRIT ARE IN GOD’S FAMILY NOT JUST CHURCH OF GOD PKG.

I submit the following Scriptures:

(Eph 2:8,9) For BY GRACE YOU ARE SAVED BY FAITH; and that not of yourselves: it is the GIFT of God: NOT OF WORKS, LEST ANY MAN SHOULD BOAST.

(Rom 3:24) being JUSTIFIED FREELY BY HIS GRACE through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus

(Rom 5:9) Much more then, being now JUSTIFIED BY HIS BLOOD, shall we be saved from the wrath of God through him.

(Rom 3:27) Where then is the glorying? It is excluded. By what manner of law? of works? No: but BY A LAW OF FAITH.

(Rom 3:28) We reckon therefore that a man is JUSTIFIED BY FAITH apart from the works of the law.

(Rom 4:5) But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, HIS FAITH IS RECKONED FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS.

(Rom 5:1) Being therefore JUSTIFIED BY FAITH, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ;

(Gal 2:16) yet knowing that a man is NOT justified by the works of the law BUT THROUGH FAITH in Jesus Christ
on February 18, 2009 at 11:22 pm think-differently

You say you have listened to sermons, even going back to 2001. If you have truly humbled yourself, you will listen again. Most of your questions are answered in the topics section of the FAQs pages.

The Church of God-PKG is the only organization teaching truth and correcting to truth even doctrine when mistaken. No other so-called Christian organization can make the same claim.

You will need to humble yourself before God, and repent, before you will agree totally with Ron Weinland. I hope that you will.
on February 19, 2009 at 12:08 am carmel

So thankful & think-differently

So thankful how can you judge about humility I was quoting different parts of information on the OT prophets … if you were humble you would be trying to gather people not cause a stumbling block…..and yes I suppose you can sit at a computer all day although others can’t…….

shalom always
on February 19, 2009 at 3:11 am truthbeliever12

Mal,
this journey is an incredible one indeed. I too was in a similiar situation as you, in fact only a year ago. Nobody can ever tell you what to do. I’m sure the information you got back was just strong advice considering you probably seemed interested.

one doesn’t have to know anything about God to do simple mathematics. Most can agree God is of one truth and can’t justify a lie ever. Well if two different faiths or religions disagree or have a different outlook about God, this will eliminate all religions and faiths until you come down to one. The question is, which is that one?

Mal,
Again from personal experiece, everything in the world was holding me back, my family, school, work, my church, sports, that way of life is too difficult, why would I listen to some nutcase on the internet, friends, convenience, fear of change. But luckily there was one being who didn’t allow me to hold back, and that was God Almighty. So I fought through all of these things and I can tell you I am a much better person because of it. God gave me a gift, but it was still up to me make the changes in my life. (Sabbath, Holy Days, and repenting.) Folowing these things are not just works, it’s a privelage, God teaches and reveals sin through these things so I can make decisions in my life everyday. I am able to see selfishness on such a magnified level in myself and others because of God, and that continues to grow. That’s how I know God is hear. You can read all the RW books you like and even listen to all of the interviews, but until you take a chance to make such changes, you will never recieve what God has to offer. But again it’s your choice, you do it at pace you feel is necessary if you even want to try it at all. Just understand your opportunities, how many people in the history can say they have choice available that you have.

I’m not going to argue with anyone anymore about what’s right, that’s something I had to learn and have repented of since. Imagine your kids getting suspended from school because they get into verbal and even physical fights to protect your name, how would that make you feel. Well imagine how this makes God feel. It took a while for me to learn this, but I know this learning won’t be over until the day I die.
on February 19, 2009 at 4:47 am South Africa 28

Hi sojourner,

Yes, I have read that post. Mr Weinland says there “if I have thereby been presumptuous, then I will repent and move forward”.

If you go and listen first to the sermon “Following God” 21st June 2008, found here http://www.cog-pkg.org/audio/archive.aspx and thereafter the “50th Truth” 28th June, a lot of things will be answered, I hope?

To me when I listen to these sermons everything is perfectly clear, I cannot understand what it is another person might hear. But I strongly urge you to download them and listen. In the fist one Mr Weinland goes through that post he had written explaining it in more depth, and in the second sermon I mentioned, 30mins into the sermon he says he was not presumptuous and explains why, he also speaks about Deut:18

Mal,
I will leave the more involved replies to come from the mature members in God’s church. I have not been baptised yet, and like I have said really don’t get scriptures as I should right now, but I am blessed to see the truth clearly, so I can grow from here.

My understanding is that God is not divided. So if you are learning about the 50 truths here with COG_PKG and the complete opposite doctrines in all the traditional Christianity churches, how can they both be the truth? God’s church has always been small, as God has not been trying to save the world these last 6000 years. He has only been calling out the 144 000 for his government, and now he is calling all of us to give us a chance to live into the mill. with Jesus Christ as our King.
So that is why the COG would tell you to flee, you cannot be in both. You are either with the 50 truths or the doctrines passed down from the Catholic Church. I believe that many traditional Christians will start to be called once things get bad here, and be given a chance to accept what the real truth is and repent. My cousin is traditional Christianity, and I just have to believe she will get a chance too.

I hope this helps in some small way. I am not so good at explaining myself, I think truthbeliever12 did a good job of conveying my thoughts.
on February 19, 2009 at 8:10 am South Africa 28

sojourner,

You wrote:

“The Deut 18 passage would seem to disqualify Mr. Weinland from being a biblical prophet, right?”

Yes, you are absolutely right, Mr Weinland even says this in the sermon “50th Truth”, but he never did that.

I hope you listen to the sermon.
on February 19, 2009 at 11:40 am sojourner

He says the times have changed but the events have not changed. It is all going to happen but at different times than he said at first.

And he said if you are a true believer, it does not matter if what I say now contradicts what I said before. If you doubt then you are risking being like Lucifer.

He read the blog post and that he interjected his understanding. But he was not presumptuous and did not sin.

Yes, he was wrong but was not presumptuous because God gave him the wrong information.

And if you doubt RW then you are not believing God’s prophet, even when he is wrong.

Did I get that right?
on February 19, 2009 at 11:46 am think-differently

No. Listen and/or read again.
on February 19, 2009 at 1:50 pm So Thankful

Carmel,

“if you were humble you would be trying to gather people not cause a stumbling block”

Did you know that your very comment accuses me of being antichrist?

Gather people to what? The Church of God – PKG?

I cannot open people’s minds to the truth as to where God is working. Only God can do that. No one revealed it to me for it was God himself that did. I know I speak for all those also here whose minds have been opened that it is God who revealed to them where he is working and whom he is working through. That is where the humility is – God did it, we did not. As for your case, and everyone else that God calls, it must be the same.
on February 20, 2009 at 2:10 am South Africa 28

sojourner

You said:

“Yes, he was wrong but was not presumptuous because God gave him the wrong information.”

God did not give him the wrong information, God had not corrected the understanding the church had had for decades, that the holy day TRUMPETS is the annoucing of Jesus Christ return, until now. God’s plan is perfect, who are we to say how he should do things. If you go back and study how God has worked with his church you will see a similar pattern.

Anyhow, at least you have your answer now. Completely different from mine, but nevertheless, you can relax now, dont worry about Mr Weinland if that is what God has shown you.

Always follow what God gives you in your mind.
on February 20, 2009 at 4:30 am carmel

Sojourner

It doesn’t rule RW out completely at this stage…yes he could still have been presumptuous….many good prophet’s of God sinned over time and through faith overcame..their plights. But if a prophet presumes to speak in my name an oracle that I have not commanded him to speak, or (speaks in the name of other gods, he shall die.) I believe these prophets are the antichrist spirit types. They don’t obey God & their belief is not in the bible. Remember the prophets of Baal There are many false prophet’s in the world today if they say things contrary to the bible or by adding to the bible. Bad News. Although note we are now in the end times so it isn’t a Sunday School Picnic…

So Thankful

“if you were humble you would be trying to gather people not cause a stumbling block”

Did you know that your very comment accuses me of being antichrist?

Gather people to what? The Church of God – PKG?

this is what I meant
1 Peter 2:2-10
Like newborn babies, crave pure spiritual milk, so that by it you may grow up in your salvation, now that you have tasted that the Lord is good.
The Living Stone and a Chosen People
As you come to him, the living Stone—rejected by men but chosen by God and precious to him— you also, like living stones, are being built into a spiritual house to be a holy priesthood, offering spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. For in Scripture it says:
“See, I lay a stone in Zion,
a chosen and precious cornerstone,
and the one who trusts in him
will never be put to shame.”Now to you who believe, this stone is precious. But to those who do not believe,
“The stone the builders rejected
has become the capstone,and,
“A stone that causes men to stumble
and a rock that makes them fall.” They stumble because they disobey the message—which is also what they were destined for.
But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people belonging to God, that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light. Once you were not a people, but now you are the people of God; once you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy.
on February 20, 2009 at 6:41 am South Africa 28

Hi Carmel,

Mr Weinland could not have been presumptuous and continued to preach, he says so himself. Deut:18 (about a false prophet) is right, Mr Weinland says so in his sermon “50th truth”. He says he did not act presumptuously, and I believe him as his explanation about how God works with his church made perfect sense to me.
on February 20, 2009 at 7:27 am think-differently

If you have not been called by God, you know neither Him nor His son Jesus. Scripture is often quoted by the uncalled, but that is no indication that they know God or Christ.

When you humble yourself to God, and repent of your sins, He will call you. Humility is the opposite of pride and must be fought for our entire lives.

When you are called, you will know what to do. Until then, I can only suggest trying to be humble, truly humble before God, and repenting, especially of non-remembrance of the Sabbath. It is the one day that God has chosen to prove Himself to us. Do not observe any other day, as it would be disrespectful to Him.
on February 20, 2009 at 9:34 am sojourner

Carmel – I stipulate that prophets sinned but I continue to ask if any Biblical prophets sinned by making a false prophecy. I do not believe they would have remained prophets if they had. The same standard should apply to any modern day claims that one is a prophet of God.

South Africa – I listened again to the sermon. In contrast to you, I cannot see the sense in it. The example he offers (what you say is how God works with the church) is not a biblical one. Is there an example where God worked this way with His prophets. If the prophets were not given specific dates or times, they didn’t assume anything. References were made (a virgin shall conceive) but no time. It would have been presumptuous for the prophet to assume. RW’s explanation does not rely on a biblical foundation. You have to assume first that RW is a prophet before you can assume that his explanation is right. Under those assumptions, it would not matter what he did or said. He could simply say this is how God is dealing with the church through His prophet.

Another question regarding predictions that is on the point. Did RW predict that no president would be inaugurated? An acquaintance said he made this statement and no one here has denied it or explained it. We now know that this is false.

I cannot escape the conclusion that RW inserted his own understanding in what he said he received and acted pressumptuously. Place RW in an Old Testament context with his statements and the outcomes and ask yourself what the result would have been.
on February 20, 2009 at 12:09 pm sojourner

PS – Who predicted this?

By the fall of 2008, the United States will have collapsed as a world power.
on February 20, 2009 at 12:23 pm So Thankful

The Church of God – PKG are the only ones that believe the following truths.

http://www.cog-pkg.org/publications/50truths.aspx

The truth of God has been progressively revealed to his Church over time. When John finished writing the book of Revelation the office of prophet ceased until God’s end time prophet. His job is to reveal, through divine revelation, the meaning of the prophesies spoken through scripture.

RW did not speak presumciously. The very revelation of the 50th truth was two fold. First, it’s purpose was humbling. Everyone had to admit, including RW, that what was previously believed to be truth (return of Jesus on the Feast of Trumpets) was not to be. Instead, as now revealed, it is Pentecost. RW’s understanding was due to
the “supposed truth” that God allowed to be supposed for a purpose. That brings us to the second point. That purpose was to differenciate where God is truly working. The original error (though God allowed it for his purpose) was quickly repented of and the truth was embraced by RW and all those that are being purified.

Daniel 12:10 Many shall be purified, made white, and refined, but the wicked shall do wickedly; and none of the wicked shall understand, but the wise shall understand.

In order to continue in the sanctification process the truth must be embraced and applied.

I am not belittling the battle of the mind. It is intense, as I know from personal expierence. Many years and years of personal expierence. But if God’s way of life means more to you than your own way then your “day of visitation” is near.

I am So Thankful.
on February 20, 2009 at 12:32 pm sojourner

If you believe this:

Everyone had to admit, including RW, that what was previously believed to be truth (return of Jesus on the Feast of Trumpets) was not to be. Instead, as now revealed, it is Pentecost. RW’s understanding was due to the “supposed truth” that God allowed to be supposed for a purpose.

then Deut. 18 has no real meaning. All of what is now “supposed truth” might be altered as events unfold differently than predicted. Deut. 18 gave the Biblical standard for knowing if a prophet speaks for God or not. Saying that God allowed error in prophecy seems a dangerous position and one which is contradicted directly by His own Words in Deut. 18:21-22:

“You may say in your heart, ‘How will we know the word which the LORD has not spoken?’

“When a prophet speaks in the name of the LORD, if the thing does not come about or come true, that is the thing which the LORD has not spoken. The prophet has spoken it presumptuously; you shall not be afraid of him.
on February 20, 2009 at 2:24 pm South Africa 28

sojourner

I dont know what to say……I never went looking for Mr Weinland. God sent me in search of the book 2008 Gods Final Witness (unknowinly) one evening on the internet. I typed in the words “end times” (I promise you those words had never crossed my mind before, until this Feb evening, whilst taking a break from studying) and the rest is as they say history……
Right at the top of the web page was the Church’s site where you could download the book…it read “2008 God’s Final Witness” and my intial thought was, wow God’s had enough and he is warning us about it…this was before I clicked onto the site. I began reading the book that Monday, by Friday I was observing my first ever sabbath. That was last year Feb. (just so you know at this stage of my life I was not attending church, as it never made sense to me when I had previously tried. I was drinking smoking parting every weekend, but everyday crying to God to save me from myself and this world, which I have always hated, because it is so evil & depressing, for me that is. i needed help, and I could not do it on my own) God had humbled me for years….I had just not realised it, until this happened then it all started to make sense.

You see, I dont have to go to Deut.18 to prove whether Mr Weinland is in fact God’s endtime prophet, I read the book and it was truth for me. Like most of us who are in the church have said, we cannot explain or show or give this same understanding to another individual, we really wish we could, because we know without a doubt what is coming, and we cannot share it with the people we love the most, because they cannot hear or see until God calls them to. He will not call someone who is not ready to repent and change from his ways, as this will hurt them rather than help/save them.

I can’t say I understand it yet, but I notice that alot of people who have been or are currently in traditional christianity churches, quote scriptures and believe in those scriptures, but what worries me is how do you know that you are always understanding the full meaning behind the scriptures? I mean, I believe that God made the bible to be coded so that not anyone could just read it.

God has always worked through Jesus, who gives the understanding to the person in charge of God’s church, who gives it to the brethren, so really a persons understanding of a scripture should come from the minister God is working through? Not ones own understanding.

That is just how I see it and thankfully it works great for me, because every sabbath I listen to the sermon by Mr Weinalnd he goes through scripture reading it in the bible (which makes no sense to me ) then explaining it and it all becomes crystal clear. Because I am a deciple willing to be taught by God, that is why I believe he is giving me a chance to know his truth now at the end time, I can still mess up, and do on a daily basis, but if you cry out to God and repent of the sin you know you have done, he pulls you back in and continues to help you fight the fight.

All the best!
on February 20, 2009 at 2:41 pm sojourner

South Africa:

You are making an argument for subjectivism. Essentially there is no check on what is correct except your subjective sense which has leads you to trust whatever Mr. Weinland says, even if it is contradictory with his prior words and the words of Scripture. It is now clear to me that your test for truth is RW and your own subjective experience. You have elevated those tests above Scripture.

I can understand that it seems God was leading you to make that Internet search. However, I could just as plausibly argue that God has lead you here to learn of the presumptuousness of RW.

In a way, you have substituted RW for a priest/pope and the COG-PKG for the Catholic Church when you write:

I mean, I believe that God made the bible to be coded so that not anyone could just read it.

and

God has always worked through Jesus, who gives the understanding to the person in charge of God’s church, who gives it to the brethren, so really a persons understanding of a scripture should come from the minister God is working through?
on February 20, 2009 at 3:54 pm South Africa 28

Hi sojourner

Listen to the sermon “our commision” – 7/02/09 – Mr Weinland goes through Deut:18 and he mentions his remark about the president taking office.

I know I cannot prove anything to you with scripture – that is what I have been saying all along. I am actually just sharing my own experience and understanding with you.

I am not sure why you are worried about what Mr Weinland is saying? If you dont believe him, then what’s to worry about? It’s not like you can convince any of us to doubt his authenticity, and it is not like we can convince you either.

Take care
on February 20, 2009 at 6:02 pm So Thankful

Sojourner,

By the fall of 2008, the United States will have collapsed as a world power.

Actually, the quote is from the last page of the 2008 GFW Book.

The proper qoute reads
“By the fall of 2008, The United States will have collapsed as a World Power, or will have begun it’s collaspe and no longer exist as an independent nation within 6 months after that time.”
on February 20, 2009 at 6:23 pm sojourner

So Thankful – Then we have until about Easter to exist as an independent nation?

This is a very specific prophecy. I’ll check in with you in April.
on February 20, 2009 at 10:07 pm rlee64

There is going to come a time where it will be a little more obvious as to whether Mr. Weinland is indeed one of God’s end-time witnesses. I find his modification of some of the things he’s said to be a little odd – but I’m certainly willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. I mean, God has repented of things in the past and has changed timelines and His thoughts towards a people.

So – what happens if the U.S. has not ceased to exist as an independent nation by spring? Will that mean a change in plan or that Mr. Weinland is not a prophet?

It depends on what you believe doesn’t it . . . . ? And by that measure – well, we could be here talking for quite a while.
on February 20, 2009 at 10:50 pm Mal

Following on from my previous entry (Feb 18th).

I now understand the reason why the Church of God PKG advised me to ‘flee’ (ie. danger) from my current church.

I found (or God led me) to ‘THE EDGE Radio Broadcast with Daniel Ott’ on the Church of God PKG website where, 39 minutes into the interview, Ronald Weinland says the following:

“The ‘mark of the beast’ of Rev 14:9 is Sunday worship as opposed to the person who observes Sabbath worship”.

Now let’s take a look in Scripture at what happens to those who have the ‘mark of the beast’:

(Rev 14:9-11) Then another angel, a third one, followed them, saying in a loud voice, “Whoever worships the beast and its image and receives a mark on his forehead or his hand will drink the wine of God’s wrath, which has been poured unmixed into the cup of his anger. He will be tortured with fire and sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and the lamb. The smoke from their torture goes up forever and ever. There is no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and its image or for anyone who receives the mark of its name.”

SO, CLEARLY THIS IS A CRITICAL DECLARATION RONALD WEINLAND IS MAKING. THAT THE ‘MARK OF THE BEAST’ AND THE DREADFUL REPERCUSSIONS THEREOF IS SUNDAY WORSHIP. IT IS NOW CLEAR TO ME WHY THE CHURCH OF GOD PKG ADVISED ME TO ‘FLEE’ FROM MY CURRENT CHURCH.

The question is, is RW right in saying the ‘mark of the beast’ is Sunday worship ? If he is right, there is indeed danger, and myself and countless other Christians had better listen to him.

OR is what he is saying false? – that instead, Jesus paid the full penalty on the cross for our sins and our salvation is found solely in faith in Him, as it says in numerous Scriptures.

IT NOW SEEMS CRUCIAL TO ME THAT I DETERMINE IF RONALD WEINLAND IS SPEAKING FOR GOD OR NOT. IF HE IS SPEAKING FOR GOD, THE ‘MARK OF THE BEAST’ IS UPON ME AND MY CHURCH IRRESPECTIVE OF MY FAITH IN CHRIST AS MY SAVIOUR. IF HE IS NOT SPEAKING FOR GOD THEN WHO IS HE SPEAKING FOR ?

So I suggest it is rather vital that we determine if Ronald Weinland really is God’s prophet (ie. speaking for God) or not. A reminder that, in fact, this is the main function of this forum, to be objective in determining whether the prophecies of Ronald Weinland come to pass as proof that he is God’s spokesman.

The following are quotes from the last James Whale Show interview with Ronald Weinland (anyone can check this out by listening to the interview on the Church of God PKG website).

JAMES WHALE – Why should people believe you are God’s prophet and not some nutcase?

R. WEINLAND – Because I will give, in advance, specific events and the timing of those events so that when the events come to pass people will know who to listen to. It is easy to say after the fact ‘this is what is happening or this is why it is happening’, but to tell in advance very specifically, there is only one way that can happen and that is if God gives it.

THE WEINLAND PROPHECIES

1) After the first trumpet is blown, during the first 45-90 days some catastrophic event will unfold which will affect the land in the USA and parts of Canada.

2) After 45-90 days of the first trumpet blowing, the second trumpet will blow and there will be a nuclear attack on the United States. Terrorist nuclear devices will be detonated in port cities like Washington DC, New York, Chicago and San Francisco.

JAMES WHALE – When the nuclear weapons go of in the United States in 45-90 days, I will believe you are God’s prophet.

R. WEINLAND – I understand that. If these prophecies do not come to pass, and very clearly so, I will never preach again.

South Africa 28, think-differently, so thankful, truthbeliever12

Please hear me out. I am not on a crusade against Ronald Weinland. But now I am clear on why Church of God PKG advised me to ‘flee’ from my current church, I have to know if he and his doctrines are from God or not. Right now, I am stunned to think that myself and my church could be carrying the ‘mark of the beast’ due to Sunday worship. This does not seem to line up with numerous Scriptures which tell us that it is faith in Jesus Christ’s sacrifice for our sins and the coming of the Holy Spirit which is our salvation guarantee.
As someone remarked already, God is not the author of confusion. Either the specific prophecies RW has made came from God or they came from some other source. If they don’t come to pass, we will know the prophecies were not from God and Ronald Weinland was not speaking as God’s prophet.

Until he is proven as God’s prophet by his prophecies coming to pass, the other things he says like ‘the mark of the beast’ equating to Sunday worship cannot be relied on. So far, none of his prophecies have been proven.

By my calculation 90 days after he says the first trumpet blew (Dec 14th) takes us to the deadline of March 14th.

It seems to be the same half dozen people contributing. Does anyone else have a view ? Citizen X – what do you think ?
on February 20, 2009 at 11:40 pm sojourner

Mal – I think you have said it all well. The mark of the beast is spoken of as a mark on the hand or forehead. How this can be sunday worship is beyond me.

As for March 14, we can meet here then and see what is what.
on February 21, 2009 at 12:46 am carmel

The Mark of the Beast in the spiritual sense will not hurt the called of God or even repentant sinners you must understand Revelation to know this…God will not consume the just who live by faith ….anyway about the Sabbath it’s one of the commandments so it should be observed …..if you have been in churches that praise God on Sunday it not a sin…..any worship to God is a pleasing vapour to him….I will explain later ….have to go to work now again…..will b back later

shalom
on February 21, 2009 at 4:34 am South Africa 28

Mark of the Beast – Number of the Beast 666 | ↑ top
The beast rising up out of the earth (Rev 13:11-18) is the great whore, the false church (the Roman Catholic Church) that rides and has powerful influence, and often, full control over the government (Holy Roman Empire). The mark of the beast is a religious mark, not a governmental mark such as a Social Security number, or a National Identity number. Those who receive the mark of the beast will suffer the corrective plagues of God’s Judgment and are contrasted with the saints, those who are keeping God’s commandments. Therefore, the mark has something to do with commandment breaking.

A mark is an identifying sign or brand. One group is forced to bear the sign, brand, or mark of the beast to work or buy or sell. Keeping the fourth commandment, the Sabbath, is a sign, mark, or brand that identifies God’s people (Ex 31: 12-17). God’s commandments, especially the fourth, are a sign on the hands (actions/work) and forehead (thinking/belief) of those who keep them. The mark of the beast is the enforced observance of Sunday and Satan’s holidays instead of God’s Sabbaths and Holy days.

Rev 13:17-18 tells us to count (compute) the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man, and his number is 666. These verses are saying the beast has a number and it may be identified. The expression “the name of the beast,” or “the number of his name” makes plain that the number 666 is the number of the name of the kingdom or empire. The expression “it is the number of a man” shows we must also count this number in the name of the king, or ruler, over the kingdom identified as the “beast.”

The beast is the Roman Empire. It was named after Romulas, the founder and first king of Rome. His name, the name of a man, also is the name of the kingdom. Every citizen in the kingdom bears the same name – a Roman. The apostle John wrote the book of Revelation in Greek. Therefore, we should count in Greek, not in Latin.

This name, in Greek, is “Lateinos.” It means “Latin Man” or “the name of Latium,” from which region the Romans derived their origin and their language. In Greek, L=30, A=1, T=300, E=5, I=10, N=50, O=70, and S=200. They add up to 666. For 1260 years the pope has reigned and ruled over the beast. They were in effect, the religious heads of the empire, ruling over the emperors, as well as over the church.

Related sermons:
“Questions, Answers & Choices – Pt. 1” (April 14, 2007)
“It Has Begun – 1260 days” (April 19, 2008)
on February 21, 2009 at 4:56 am South Africa 28

Hi Mal,

Have you read these articles yet?

Why Do You Observe Sunday?

When is the Christian Sabbath?

Keep the Sabbath Holy

You can find these articles written by Herbert W Armstrong here:
http://biblical-truth.com/articles/
on February 21, 2009 at 10:34 am Mal

Thanks for your responses.

The statement from RW that the ‘Mark of the Beast’ (and the dreadful consequences thereof) is on us if we worship God on a Sunday really bothers me.

I agree that we should worship God on the Sabbath and, although I worship together with my church on a Sunday, I acknowledge His Sabbath privately before God.

The people I worship with on Sunday are vibrant Christians full of the Holy Spirit and love for Jesus Christ. I find it hard to believe they are carrying the ‘Mark of the Beast’.

The fact is that we are living in a fallen world and we are all sinners and, as I understand Scripture, we are saved SOLELY by our FAITH in the shed blood of Christ for our sins. Christ has redeemed us from our sins under His NEW COVENANT – end of story. Nothing we can do, Sabbath worship or anything else, affects that.

For me, the following Scriptures make this clear:

(Mat 26:28) For this is my blood of the NEW COVENANT that is being poured out for many people for the forgiveness of sins.

(Heb 9:15) This is why he is the mediator of a NEW COVENANT; so that those who are called may receive the eternal inheritance promised them, since a death has occurred that redeems them from the offenses committed under the first covenant.

(2Co 3:6) who has also qualified us to be ministers of a NEW COVENANT, which is not written but spiritual, because the written text brings death, but the Spirit gives life.

(Heb 8:8) But God found something wrong with his people when he said, “Look! The days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will establish a NEW COVENANT with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah.

(Heb 8:13) In speaking of a NEW COVENANT, he has made the first one obsolete, and what is obsolete and aging will soon disappear.

(2Co 3:6) who has also qualified us to be ministers of a NEW COVENANT, which is not written but spiritual, because the written text brings death, but the Spirit gives life.

This is why I am really uncomfortable with RW saying that the ‘Mark of the Beast’ is Sunday worship.

I think it more likely that when we finally stand before Jesus, he will welcome us and lovingly put us straight that we will gain maximum benefit from our relationship with God the Father by coming before Him on the Sabbath.

Ronald Weinland said himself on the James Whale Show that his authenticity as God’s spokesman will be proven by fulfillment of his prophecies. That is what will distinguish him above any other minister out there.

This forum was designed to determine the accuracy of his prophecies. Those prophecies, so far, have not come to pass. I pray the time will come, surely fairly soon, when his authenticity will become clear.

South Africa 28

Thanks for the explanation of the number 666 applying to Romulus. That is really interesting and I would certainly not rule that out. I would however council caution, as I have seen ‘proofs’ of it being various individuals in the past. One of the strongest numerical ‘proofs’ I have seen, put forward while he was still president, was that it was George W. Bush.
on February 21, 2009 at 1:23 pm think-differently

Rev 9:13 And the sixth angel sounded, and I heard a voice from the four horns of the golden altar which is before God,
Rev 9:14 Saying to the sixth angel which had the trumpet, Loose the four angels which are bound in the great river Euphrates.
Rev 9:15 And the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men.
Rev 9:16 And the number of the army of the horsemen were two hundred thousand thousand: and I heard the number of them.
Rev 9:17 And thus I saw the horses in the vision, and them that sat on them, having breastplates of fire, and of jacinth, and brimstone: and the heads of the horses were as the heads of lions; and out of their mouths issued fire and smoke and brimstone.
Rev 9:18 By these three was the third part of men killed, by the fire, and by the smoke, and by the brimstone, which issued out of their mouths.
Rev 9:19 For their power is in their mouth, and in their tails: for their tails were like unto serpents, and had heads, and with them they do hurt.
Rev 9:20 And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk:
Rev 9:21 Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts.

Rev 9:20 And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk:
Rev 9:21 Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts.

Rev 9:20 And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk:
Rev 9:21 Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts.

…
on February 21, 2009 at 3:24 pm Truthseeker

Hi all, I don’t frequent this site often now but I see I have missed too much to respond to all of it now but I would like to add my two cents, so sorry if it is repetitive with what others have said.

First Carmel, I’m sorry I really don’t know anything about you right now and I don’t have time right now to go back and look up what you wrote before, but basicly what I have to say about your responce to my last posting is this: Mostly I was venting about the attatude of people in the world and on the media and I was mostly dirrecting it to others in the church. So really you have misinterpeded everything I said. The best explaination is I guess it was not for you. I don’t have the time to exspain everything if you don’t “get” it. But, just to let you know, I don’t judge you, or anyone in the sence that you think, for God has alread Judged us. But, it is not wrong for me to say that “this” is wright or wrong according to God, if I know it to be true. An example, to say a man who has long hair is sinning and needs to repent is not judging that person but stating a fact that God has already judged them. I am not the one judging because I did not make the law or write the Word of God. So, if I know what the truth is, it does not, not make it so if anouther person says I do not know the truth. They can say I am crazy or anything they like, even to kill me but it doesn’t stop me from knowing the truth.

The only other thing I can suggest for you is to seek the truth (and or His Church) without prejudice in all humility to the Father. If you already know that RW is not God’s true end-time minister than you should seek to find where God is. Peace.

I guess I could have used a better world than “lucky”. I think “blessed might be better”. So may you be blessed.
on February 21, 2009 at 6:38 pm Truthseeker

Hi Mal,

I hope this helps although, I recommend for you to really keep seeking all truth to God our Father, in all humility. Fear is the beginning of Wisdom. What is it that is causing you to even consider that Ronald Weinland might be one of the two witnesses? Why does the whole Bible seem to scream, for us to pay attention and be watchful? Why does it say the whole world is deceived? Does that mean the whole world except the 2.2+billion in traditional Christianity? These are some questions that motivated me in searching for truths that I could use to know who were false ministers and who was the one who was truly representing the real Christ.

I had an advantage. God showed me truth one by one before I found the real Church of God. I did not have all truth but I built up truths hat I proved. It started with the first truth that I found. It was a big one: The Bible is the Word of God. This was big for me because I thought mostly Christians were hypocrites and false. I would say that he proved this to me it seemed even supernaturally, over a period of time. At the same time God was showing me that He did send his son to save mankind. This may sound fundamental to “all Christians” but to me is it wasn’t proved than it was not real. Next, God showed me that certain things that most Christains belived was false. All the time I was studing with a church, that claimed was the true church of God but later I was able to prove that they were not. Anyway, I learned that what people belive about heaven and hell to be false. Next, the Trinity. Then I learned about who really rules the world and deceives the world. I proved them by scriptures. I started studing many more doctrine of many other churches (on-line), one by one. I would take a doctrine that was popular and find the scriptures that the church(s) used to prove and than find opposing doctrine and the scripture they use, than read the whole chapters not just the one scripture and most importantly asking God to show me all truth.

It was weird when I realized that the whole world is deceived and in essence worshiping a false god, but than this understanding helped me to put all the other scripture in perspective. This was a lonely journey, but once in a while I would see others learning truths of God at different levels. Now, even though I do not have complete understanding, I do understand that what we learned before we are called is for a reason and helps us later. It is not for no reason. These people who worship wrongly are not dammed, for they fit in God’s plan also. But, they do not worship God in Truth and Spirit, yet. This is hard to explain but you will learn about this over time is you continue seeking.

The Church of God-PKG would advise you to stop worshiping with other churches is they thought you were convinced that COG-PKG was the true church of God. If you are not convinced than you better continue seeking God with all your heart wherever you think He is. But, I would recommend you to pray that He shows you Truth in everything.

Jesus did pay the full pentaly for us to be forgiven for our sins but we must repent to accept this forgiveness so that the Spirit of God may dwell in us. To Repent means to think-differently. It also means do this sin no more. If God helps me to think differently than it is easy for me to not continue to do this sin. If I slip I can repent (ask God to help me to repent) again and than ask God to continue guiding me (or dwelling in me, after being baptized). If we do not repent than we do not accept or we deny Christ. You can find the truth of this in scriptures if you seek it. In Acts the Apostles warns about a false church (or teachers) teaching about Jesus and not about the true Gospel. This was the beginning of the Catholics Church and all of it’s daughters to follow.

Traditional Christians teach about Christ, but they do not have the Spirit of God. They have the same spirit as all of these other world religions. This is a real emotional experience that one can not deny. And this and other reasons such as emotional ties to Sunday worship, Christmas, Easter, etc are a few of many reasons why most will not turn away from the ways of their fathers (and their own) and turn to God.

Yet, I am not telling you to stop going to your church, you must find the Truth, before you can start changing your life is such dramatic ways. Because it is a lonely road and you need to be strong to be able to make it, but either way we are responsible for what we do. And a warning if you close up what God is teaching you, because of somethings you yet do not understand or believe He will stop giving more until you repent. If there is something you can not prove yet then take your time and ask God to prove all things either way. All things will fit together like a puzzle . Because it is not about what we believe, it is about what Truths God has revealed to us.

Peace and Truth
on February 21, 2009 at 7:46 pm carmel

Sojourner
Numbers 12:1-10
Miriam & Aaron

Miriam and Aaron spake against Moses because of the Ethiopian woman whom he had married: for he had married an Ethiopian woman. And they said, “Hath the LORD indeed spoken only by Moses? hath he not spoken also by us?” And the LORD heard it.

Now the man Moses was very meek, above all the men which were upon the surface of the earth. And the LORD spake suddenly unto Moses, and unto Aaron, and unto Miriam, Come out ye three unto the tabernacle of the congregation. And they three came out.

And the Lord came down in the pillar of the cloud, and stood in the door of the tabernacle, and called Aaron and Miriam: and they both came forth. And he said, Hear now my words: If there be a prophet among you, I the LORD will make myself known unto him in a vision, and will speak unto him in a dream. My servant Moses is not so, who is faithful in all my house. With him will I speak mouth to mouth, even apparently, and not in dark speeches, and the similitude of the LORD shall he behold: wherefore then were ye not afraid to speak against my servant Moses?

And the anger of the LORD was kindled against them, and he departed. And the cloud departed from off the tabernacle, and behold, Miriam became leprous, white as snow, and Aaron looked upon Miriam, and behold, she was leprous. Other than prophet Jonah he had to be punished to his call…
there have been no more prophets in the bible that recited a false prophecy I”m sure think-differently or So thankful will correct me if they know any more examples…..
on February 21, 2009 at 8:46 pm sojourner

carmel – not sure what you are going for here. Moses did not prophesy incorrectly. Neither did Jonah.
on February 22, 2009 at 12:18 am carmel

sojourner

I gave u an example of prophet’s Miriam & Aaron who spoke against Moses… the Lord was not pleased…

& I mentioned Jonah who ran away from the Lord but he still prophesied.

Now what I was meaning I didn’t say Moses was anything other than a man of Faith who was very meek, above all the men which were upon the the earth.

I don’t know of any false prophecy in the bible…the bible is the pure inspired word of God…..

Calling Citizen X

Can u help me out here ………
on February 22, 2009 at 1:09 am sojourner

carmel – I understand that prophets could sin. They were not perfect in their behavior. But this is not the issue with Deut 18 and the standard for a prophet of God.

Mr. Weinland made some predictions. They have not come true within the time frame he set forth. There are others that apparently need to happen pretty soon or he again will be shown to be inaccurate.

The more I interact with some of you here, it appears that you are being deceived by this man. I am feeling like perhaps I have come across an almost cult-like devotion to a man who can make a prediction and when it does not come true, backpeddle and say it was in some way planned by God.

I really wonder where this goes for you all who believe that the next year of so will bring the collapse of the US and then it does not happen. What will Mr. Weinland do then? More importantly what happens to your firm beliefs about other aspects of his teachings?
on February 22, 2009 at 8:52 am carmel

Sojourner
I am a firm believer in defining truth if we believe the bible we believe that God and Jesus have a firm hand on events that take place or are in the making.. example end time prophetic happenings. I don’t fully agree with all things RW has said but I am not going agree for the sake of agreeing to please man…

“By the fall of 2008, The United States will have collapsed as a World Power, or will have begun it’s collaspe and no longer exist as an independent nation within 6 months after that time.”

Ok then by March or April 09 this should have happened
ps (open for discussion) if I quoted odd dates….

RW wrote those 2 end time books …..so I would still regard him as a minister … if he is not the end time witness
then they have to come on the scene soon….
on February 22, 2009 at 12:59 pm think-differently

In case this has not been made clear –

If you have not been baptized into the Body of Christ, that is, baptized by the laying on of hands for God’s power to enter you, either by ministers of the Church of God – PKG, or ministers of the Worldwide Church of God PRIOR TO the apostasy of December 1994, you have no reason to fear for your eternal life. If you have been baptized by the spirit into the Body of Christ, , either by the Church of God – PKG, or the Worldwide Church of God PRIOR TO the apostasy of December 1994, then, you have much to fear if you are not following the Sabbath and listening to the end time prophet.

If you have not been baptized as mentioned, you MUST humble yourself before God, repent of your sins, especially the first 4 of the 10 commandments, and then contact the cog-pkg ministers.

If you are not affected by Mr. Armstrong or the before-mentioned conditions, you are wasting everyone’s time posting to this blog!
on February 22, 2009 at 6:59 pm carmel

think-differently

God is not an author of confusion…ur telling everyone to enter one church cover which is in no way different to the Catholic Church….. your making RW look like the Pope and that nothing he says cannot be questioned…..??

I have been a christian all my life I have been in heaps of churches and it is not a sin for me to be where I am…..

I feel totally free in the Lord I commune with him daily I know that I am not perfect I know where I stand today is right for me until I am enlightened by God to move where ever…..

Stop telling people they are sinning if they worship God on a Sunday…. that is wrong ……any day to worship God in Spirit and in truth is right and of course Saturday is honourable to God…..
on February 22, 2009 at 7:00 pm Mal

Think-Differently

Surely your last entry must breach the rules and intent of this forum?
To say that anyone who is not affected by Mr Armstrong or the before-mentioned conditions is wasting everyone’s time posting on this blog is surely out of order ?

A reminder that this forum is designed to be an objective analysis of the truth and accuracy of Ronald Weinland’s prophecies in order to determine if he really is God’s prophet, as the opening statement declares:

“ The Weinland Window has begun. We shall gauge the Thunders, Seals, and Trumpets. From disastrous natural events to predicted nuclear attacks in ports, harbors, and major cities, the world shall discern whether Ronald Weinland speaks the words of God or of man”.

As Ronald Weinland himself has declared, God will prove who he is by bringing his prophecies to pass.

The next deadline as I see it is March 14th, because RW said there would definitely be nuclear explosions in port cities in the United States within 45-90 days of the blowing of the first trumpet. According to RW the first trumpet blew on Dec 14th.

He also told James Whale he would announce he was a false prophet if that didn’t happen, and he would never preach again.

—————————————————————————

Regarding your comment “you have much to fear if you are not following the Sabbath and listening to the end time prophet”.

A reminder again that the Word of God is very clear that JESUS HAS DONE IT ALL as far as our salvation is concerned when we have faith and receive the Holy Spirit and there is, therefore, no condemnation in Christ Jesus.

(Rom 8:1) There is therefore now NO CONDEMNATION to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

That is the very reason Jesus Christ had to come, because the Old Testament law brought only death since mankind was unable to keep it. We are totally safe through faith in the saving grace of Jesus’ sacrifice, so we need have no fear.

Jesus spoke of His NEW COVENANT, so that His sacrifice would redeem us from our offenses under the Old Covenant, so we would obtain our eternal inheritance. The Apostle Paul affirmed in the following Scripture:

(Heb 9:15) This is why He is the mediator of a NEW COVENANT; so that those who are called may receive the eternal inheritance promised them, since a death has occurred that REDEEMS THEM FROM THE OFFENSES COMMITTED UNDER THE FIRST COVENANT.

AFTER we are saved, the Holy Spirit begins to change us until eventually we will reach the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ (Eph 4:13).

That is why Scripture teaches about Christ setting us FREE.

(Gal 5:1) CHRIST HAS SET US FREE! This means we are REALLY FREE. Now hold on to your freedom and don’t ever become slaves of the Law again.

SO, again – people who have put their faith and trust in Jesus Christ’s sacrifice for their sins and have received the Holy Spirit of change have no need to fear. The Holy Spirit writes the law on our hearts to enable us to change so we will eventually reach the stature of the fullness of Christ (glorified beings like Christ), but our salvation is already assured at that point when we put our faith and trust in Him.
on February 23, 2009 at 12:48 am truthbeliever12

Carmel,
God is not the author of confusion but unfortunately satan and the demons are, they are real beings here on this earth. With all do respect many people have the same attitude about God as you do, and if He was the real God, this world would be in much better shape.

God’s commandment is to keep the SABBATH Holy, not keep any day holy. Jesus Christ’s second coming is after six thousand years. It’s not in the first thousand, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, or 6th. The 7th is God’s time, to take away from that is sin, and to hold on to something false is pride.
on February 23, 2009 at 1:04 am sojourner

Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of a feast day or a new moon or a sabbath day:
-Col. 2:16
on February 23, 2009 at 1:09 am Jack

Mal
It sounds to me like you have been reading the testimony of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, Son of the Living God.

Just remember:
The TRUTH shall set you free.
on February 23, 2009 at 1:17 am Jack

think differently:

I was very happy to see your post which was ALL scripture and no comment whatsoever. The scripture speaks for itself and needs no interpretation or explanation.

That is the best comment I have ever seen on a blog.
on February 23, 2009 at 6:56 am carmel

truthbeliever12

God is not the author of confusion but unfortunately satan and the demons are, they are real beings here on this earth. With all do respect many people have the same attitude about God as you do, and if He was the real God, this world would be in much better shape.

Your blaming God for your life what a shame

I suppose you would blame Jesus throwing all the money changers out of the temple

Anyway you will see
on February 23, 2009 at 7:25 am South Africa 28

Unpardonable Sin | ↑ top
Scripture states that blasphemy against the holy spirit is an unpardonable sin (Mat. 12:31-32). This scripture must be read with the understanding that the holy spirit is not a person in the Godhead, but it is the very power of the one true God. It is this power that a person can become impregnated with (begotten of God) after baptism and the laying on of hands. Once one is begotten of God’s spirit, God reveals that He and His Son then begin to dwell in (abide in/ live in) that person. This is the very reason Jesus Christ died. He died in order for mankind to be forgiven of sin, so that He and His Father could begin to spiritually dwell in those who are begotten of God.

After someone has been begotten of God, and He and His Son begin to dwell in him or her, then that person begins to grow spiritually. If that person sins, then because of that new covenant agreement that was made at baptism, they are to repent quickly, as God cannot dwell with/in sin. That is why Christ died as our Passover, so that sin can be forgiven and then God can dwell in us.

If a person comes to the point that they refuse to repent, then they become in danger of the unpardonable sin (sin not repented of and therefore cannot be forgiven). If that person cannot be brought to repentance through the grace and mercy of God at work in his or her life, then they have committed the unpardonable sin and will suffer the penalty of eternal death (never to be resurrected to life). This is the final penalty for all who refuse to repent of sin, which is an eternal punishment (not being eternally punished).

God’s desire for all is that every person repents of sin. As long as a person responds to the mercy, patience, and love of God to be able to repent of sin, then such a person will want God to dwell in them so that he or she can grow spiritually and eventually become part of God’s Kingdom.

Hebrews 6:4-6 refers to a converted person (someone who has been called, repented, been baptised, and received the Holy Spirit by the laying of hands) who knowingly and intentionally rejects the truth once delivered and denies God and Jesus Christ to live (dwell/abide) in them. This is not a person who through neglect or deception went to sleep spiritually which was prophesied to happen to the Church.

Related sermon:
“The Deeper Purpose of Prayer – Pt. 2” (Dec. 9, 2006)
“1 John – Pt 4” (August 9, 2008)
on February 24, 2009 at 12:13 am truthbeliever12

Carmel,

Im not exactly sure what you’re talking about, and after rereading what I wrote, it was nothing personal but I guess it sounded that way so I apologize, but I’ll clerify what I meant

1. God’s truth is plain and simple

2. Man and other beings distort and take away from 1.

3. If 2 was wrong, this world would be a great place to live in.

God has made it clear in the bible that he is not working with the entire world, just a few he has called out.
on February 24, 2009 at 6:44 pm Truthseeker

In regards to what someone said earlier,

This blog is for people who are pro Weinland or who are not sure. It is not for people against Weinland as some people are on this blog.

As for worshiping God on Sunday. We are of course to and can worship God Everyday (in Truth and Spirit), but we are to keep the Sabbath, separate for Holy use and purpose. It belongs to God.

Everyone is free to do what the want and they do, but to say that you contacted the COG-PKG and they told you to stop worshiping on Sunday(or flee from your church), is only part of the picture. Why did you contact them? Of course, if you want to become part of this organization by meeting with others or being baptized would mean that you agree with there doctrine and therefore believe they are the True church of God and that we must keep the Sabbath Holy. If you do not agree with this than you must do what you think is right.

For me I MUST do what I think is right and true. Than includes to stop attending a false church if I find that they are false even if there is ties with friends and or family. This is exactly what I did, even though it was not easy. But, I did not see that I must do this until I realized that they were wrong and what time we are in and what God is doing.

Sorry, if this was a negative tone, I didn’t mean it, I just don’t have too much time to write to explain myself better.

Peace

P.S. Ronald Weinland never said that we were definitely going to be nuked. You would understand better if you listened to the sermons;) starting with “our commision”
on February 25, 2009 at 7:54 pm carmel

Dear truthbeliever12

No apology needed. This is how I see through my eyes
God’s truth is plain and simple, to all who believe and do his will.

Man and other beings distort the truth,this is because of sin.

People won’t repent unless they see their sin.

The bible contains a lot of information. People are not willing to follow God unless their spiritual eyes are opened to follow God’s will or purpose.

Don’t forget the bible is preached in all the world before the return of Jesus.

It is said in Rev 22
And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:
And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads.
And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.
And he said unto me, These sayings are faithful and true: and the Lord God of the holy prophets sent his angel to shew unto his servants the things which must shortly be done.
Behold, I come quickly: blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book.
on February 27, 2009 at 12:51 pm Don

Like many followers of this website, I cannot really know for sure if Mr Weinland is a true prophet until events have clarified the issue. But if we consider the implications of two of Mr Weinland’s fundamental beliefs, together they produce a perfectly logical and easily ascertainable conclusion which we can compare with undisputed historical facts of Egyptian history. The outcome is intriguing, and the exercise is fairly straight forward but it takes a little time to explain the detail. I would therefore be grateful if Citizen X, and readers, would be patient with me. If readers can point to any basic flaws in my thinking, I would welcome their comment. The beliefs are as follows:

1. The belief that the stories in Genesis, including the story of Noah’s world-wide Flood, are literal historical truth (page 9 of “2008 God’s Final Witness”), and

2. The belief that under God’s 7,000 Year Plan, mankind is nearing 6,000 years of self-rule, i.e. that Adam was created in about 3990 BC (page 167 of same book).

Fact Number 1:
Firstly, if Genesis stories are historically true we can easily compute the number of years from Adam’s creation to Noah’s Flood. Chapter 5 of the Book of Genesis lists the generations from Adam to Noah. If we note the number of years from the creation of Adam to the birth of his son Seth (130 years), and then go on to compute the time elapsing between succeeding births, this is the result:

Adam’s creation to Seth’s birth 130 years
Seth’s birth to Enosh’s birth 105 years
Enosh’s birth to Kenan’s birth 90 years
Kenan’s birth to Mahalaleel’s birth 70 years
Mahalaleel’s birth to Jared’s birth 65 years
Jared’s birth to Enoch’s birth 162 years
Enoch’s birth to Methuselah’s birth 65 years
Methuselah’s birth to Lamech’s birth 187 years
Lamech’s birth to Noah’s birth 182 years
Noah’s birth to start of the Flood 600 years
(Genesis 7:11)
TOTAL from Adam to Noah’s Flood: 1656 years
Secondly, if it’s true that Adam was created 6,000 years ago (i.e. around 3990 BC), we can now compute the date of Noah’s Flood. If the world-wide Flood occurred 1656 years after Adam’s creation in 3990 BC, it means that it took place around 2334 BC, and according to Genesis 6:7 &13; 7:19-23; and 9:11, it resulted in the destruction of the entire population on earth except for those in Noah’s Ark. Do readers agree with that logic?

Fact Number 2:
In Mr Weinland’s web-site posting of January 26, 2009 he said, of his visit to Egypt, “We have also seen the oldest of pyramids—the oldest structures built by man—that may date to around 2630 BC”. He added, “On Sabbath, I will speak more about our trip to Egypt and the impact is has had upon us, as this region of the world sums up the lessons of man’s history”. However, I doubt whether even Mr Wienland realized just how big an impact the lessons of Egyptian history have on his end-time teachings.

Historians agree that Egyptian civilization was indeed flourishing around 2630 BC, as Mr Weinland indicates. If the computations in Fact Number 1 are correct, three hundred years later along came a world-wide Flood in about 2334 BC which would have destroyed the entire Egyptian population, causing an abrupt cessation of all activities of that ancient civilization.

Inevitable conclusion: Ongoing Egyptian civilization would then have come to an abrupt halt, with no more building of Egyptian pyramids or temples. This would produce a noticeable gap in the historical record from 2334 BC onwards until the resettlement of Egypt by the descendants of Ham (Genesis 10:6). Do readers agree with that logic?

Fact Number 3:
Oddly enough, Egyptian history and archaeological evidence clearly reveal that Egyptian civilization continued on without interruption for a further 2000 years after the Flood date of 2334 BC, with no break in historical continuity. In fact, the evidence of the ancient Egyptian civilization (consisting variously of king lists, as well as pyramids, temples, monuments, steles, and tombs – with their accompanying identifying hieroglyphic inscriptions) goes back to the start of the First Dynasty in 3100 BC, and continues right through to the end of the Thirtieth Dynasty in 343 BC, when Egyptian kings were replaced by Persian rulers. This remarkable historical continuity is also confirmed by Michael Fassbender’s observations in his online article A brief history of Egyptian hieroglyphics: “The Egyptian hieroglyph system remained in use for 3,500 years, with the number of symbols growing according to need but never being replaced or significantly altered”.
(http://www.helium.com/items/1092970-history-of-egyptian-hieroglyphics)

Egyptian structures built after the Genesis Flood date of 2334 BC, include the pyramids of Amenemhat I (c.1991–1962 BC, Senusret I (c.1971–1926 BC), Senusret II (c.1897-1878 BC), and Amenemhat III (c.1860–1814 BC), as well as the Great Temple of Ramesses II at Abu Simbel (c.1279-1211 BC) – all featuring hieroglyphic inscriptions as used by the ancient Egyptians before the Flood date of 2334 BC.

Necessary conclusion: If it’s true that Adam was created 6,000 years ago, and the Genesis account of Noah’s Flood is factual history, the continuity of Egyptian history as described above is an impossibility, for ongoing Egyptian civilization would have been halted in about 2334 BC.

Fact Number 4:
It’s true that precise dating of events in ancient Egypt is difficult due, largely, to the complications involved in trying to establish precise correlations between the ancient Egyptian methods of expressing dates and our own Gregorian calendar. However, the overall picture of the ongoing continuity of ancient Egyptian history up to 343 BC has never been doubted by historians.

A question to ponder:

If it’s true that (a) under God’s 7,000 Year Plan, mankind is nearing 6,000 years of self-rule since Adam’s creation in 3990 BC, and that (b) Noah’s world-wide Flood was an actual historical event as narrated in Genesis, the logical conclusion is clear – a world-wide Flood destroyed Egyptian civilization around 2334 BC. If that’s so, how do we account for the obvious evidence of ongoing ancient Egyptian civilization which continued on without interruption for another 2000 years beyond 2334 BC?

Comments invited.
on February 28, 2009 at 3:45 am Truthseeker

Hi Don, very interesting.

Let me just start out with this: first there is different types of people and God gives us Truth in the manor that I presume is right for us, so the real answer would be that you better seek God for your answer. He will answer you, just maybe not in the way you first expect. It was hard for me to just accept what I didn’t understand as in things like the dinosaurs, how Adam first came into being, etc. While, I understand things a million times more than I did before, of course, I don’t understand everything as God will continue to reveal everything to us progressively. This is not to say that we should not seek answers. I have learned a couple basic things. One is that the Word of God is True and complete (the Bible). Another, is that the world is currently ruled by a very powerful being that rebelled against God and has been trying to destroy everything of God’s that he can. A main way that he does this is by misinformation. I have read probably just about everything out there and there is a lot of information out there. Some myth, some theory, some speculation, some history, some so called fact and some fact. The problem is the line between most of these are dim if even noticeable.

I’m not going to say that I am going go right now and look up the history of Egypt, because I am not, not that I would not, I just don’t need to, but that’s me.

But, I will tell you what I have heard and read that might help.

It’s a possibility that Noah was a great priamid architect (his day job).

At least the sphinx is known to have been made before Egypt was a nation as we know it.

These structures were supposively made with technology that was lost when Atlantis went down (possibly the flood).

The pyramids were used more for astro travel than for tombs

Egypt is closely related to Summara. Both are clocked in the mystrey religions that had dirrect influesce by Satan.

History books are not always true. I kind of kidding because most of what we know as history are lies and half truths and I’m referring to just the last 300 years of History. So what do you think about the last 5,000 years?

Also, science puts man on this earth many, many years before what is possible according to Ronald Weinland, Herbert W Armstrong and the Bible.

Anyway, I’m getting tired, but have you considered that the earlier structures to be made by a civilization prior to the Egyptians. And further what role does Nimrod have in this or are you discrediting the Bible if it doesn’t follow your time line? Got to go now – Peace
on March 1, 2009 at 11:33 am Mike

Don,

Great post! I would very much like to read or hear RW’s response to it, if he was interested in making one.

Truthseeker,

You also said something very important:

“I have read probably just about everything out there and there is a lot of information out there. Some myth, some theory, some speculation, some history, some so called fact and some fact. The problem is the line between most of these are dim if even noticeable.”

I agree, and feel that that is why it is so important that the return of Jesus Christ is so necessary. We need to be able to distinguish between fact and fiction, truth and lies, logical reasoning and confused ramblings. Don’s post was a well-constructed addition to the search for truth. You need to do as well as him in constructing your arguement if you want to support your vision of what is true.
on March 1, 2009 at 12:36 pm think-differently

God will call whom God will call. The rest of you can run around like chickens with their heads cut off “seeking” truth, if you so choose.

The way to find truth is to humble yourself before God and repent, especially of the breaking of God’s day, the Sabbath. Then, and only then, will He bless you with the truth.

If you do not humble yourself, God will eventually do it for you, more than likely giving you the 1000 year break in time. You will still have to choose God’s way over your own.
on March 1, 2009 at 5:06 pm carmel

think-differently

You, are so legalistic in your thinking. I have met a lot of legalistic christian people in the past. I have marvelled at their approach to christian ethics and their treatment of others. Some on here have not be very patient with others. Yet I find they are not trying to be as perfect as Jesus. We are all to strive unto perfection like Jesus.

A christian person would or should be seeking God. What happened to “blessed are the poor in spirit” isn’t that a thirst for spiritual growth….don’t break the camels’ back.

Bless you
on March 1, 2009 at 5:27 pm Mal

Hi Don

Your insert raises a fundamental question. Do we believe God’s Word (the Bible), or the words of man.

Those of us who read the Bible and have had our eyes opened to the profound and spiritual nature of the Words contained therein, and know how perfectly it all fits together, and all the different levels of meaning contained therein, KNOW it is the Word of God. We also know from those Words that God has a timetable.

From personal experience I know that any ‘flaws’ I have found in Scripture are not flaws in Scripture at all, but flaws in my own understanding which are later corrected.

Regarding dating, it is not a coincidence that the Holy Spirit placed all the necessary information in Scripture for us to know where we are in history (for example, the ages of the patriarchs).

God does not put any information in His Word which is superfluous. As the Apostle Paul told us in 2Timothy 3:16 :-

“ALL SCRIPTURE IS GOD-BREATHED, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,”

At this point in history, even if someone has no Bible knowledge, the news we read and see on our TV screens are evidence that the world is on the edge of a precipice (global warming, violent extremes of weather, food shortages, threat of nuclear weapons, increasing use of alchohol and narcotics, moral decline, financial collapse etc). These conditions clearly fit with what God’s Word says about conditions at the ‘end of the age’, just prior to the time when Christ will return.

Regarding the ‘problem’ with Noah’s flood and ancient Egypt, there are websites which give evidence supporting Biblical dates just as there is information from ‘experts’ who deny Biblical dates can be correct.

Two examples:
http://creationwiki.org/Biblical_chronology#Egyptian_vs_Biblical_Chronology

http://www.ancientdays.net/flooddate.htm

Numerous Old Testament events in the Bible are supported by archeological evidence and eventually the truth of all the events therein will be proven.

I KNOW WHICH I BELIEVE. I have a Saviour coming very soon, according to the timetable of God’s Word, who is going to restore this world back to the way God intended it.

PS. This is not particularly to support Ronald Weinland as God’s end time witness. That claim still has to be proven. However, we are approx at that point in history when the two witnesses can be expected to appear.
on March 1, 2009 at 6:18 pm think-differently

I don’t know what is meant by legalistic or trying to be perfect as Jesus. I don’t think you know either, because you surely don’t know Jesus or even all the laws of God.

I don’t know everything, nor will I for some time. I used to be like you, unknowing. I distinctly remember a dream I had about 10 years ago, that let me know that I didn’t know Jesus. It wasn’t until more recently, not too long before my calling, that I sincerely wanted to know who Christ was. I’m not saying that wanting to know who he was made me ready for my calling, but it did precede it.

I used to do a lot of searching, and rejecting what I found, too, until I stumbled across two books that were free. I read them both, with an open mind/heart and that was the beginning for me. Within a few months, I was baptized in water and had hands laid upon me for receipt of the spirit – God’s power. Now, as an embryo, I continue to grow with Jesus and God dwelling with me!

You are free to think what you want, but truth is only found with a humble and contrite spirit before God.
on March 1, 2009 at 9:26 pm carmel

think-differently This is the meaning:

Matt 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
James 1:4 “But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting (lacking) nothing.”
“A new commandment I give unto you, that ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.”
“By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.”
As we strive to imitate our Savior and Teacher, Jesus Christ, we need to look especially at his relationship with the Father, and his relationship with the people around him. His relationship with the Father is characterized by prayer and by his thorough knowledge of and reliance on Scripture. Prayer and study have for millennia formed the core of Christian spiritual growth. They are important! Why? Not as another “duty” or legalism. But as the way of being with God so that we can hear his voice in our lives and be reminded of our true condition: We are redeemed from sin, we belong to him, our salvation is secure in him, he loves us infinitely, he is our ever-present Helper and he will never leave nor forsake us. Jesus was committed to people—he loved the lost, and he castigated people who thought they were religiously superior to others (a feeling that usually stems from a works-oriented approach to worship). He was committed to a close relationship among believers—his disciples related not just individually to him as students to their teacher, but also to one another. Jesus formed them into a group, a body, that would in time give itself mutual support, a community that would reach out to others and invite them in.. through faith in him
on March 1, 2009 at 9:59 pm sojourner

Two weeks…
on March 2, 2009 at 12:07 pm Mal

Yes, two weeks.

But a reminder that two weeks is the deadline for the SECOND trumpet. RW said the second would blow 45-90 days after the first, and would involve terrorist nuclear attacks on port cities in the United States. Whether it would be closer to 45 days or 90 days would depend on the amount of repentance as a result of the first trumpet.

The prophecied results of the first trumpet have yet to be seen. According to RW the first trumpet sounded on Dec 14th 2008 and would result in some kind of devastation to the land in the United States and parts of Canada.

These prophecies can be heard on the James Whale Show interview on the Church of God PKG website.
on March 2, 2009 at 11:21 pm Don

Truthseeker,

Thanks for your comments on my thoughts about Mr Weinland’s end-time beliefs conflicting with Egyptian history. You raise a good point about prehistoric peoples being on earth before the time Ron Weinland says Adam was created. But the evidence for the long-term continuity of Egyptian history is so overwhelming that it’s simply not in doubt. The evidence is straightforward and non-controversial. It shows that the same people, with the same culture, the same religious beliefs, the same language, and the same hieroglyphics, carried on without being interrupted by a universal flood in 2334 BC. Wikipedia says: “The history of Egypt is the longest continuous history, as a unified state, of any country in the world.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Egypt
As I pointed out in my post of February 27, not all Egyptian dates can be accurately determined, but the overall picture of continuity is not in doubt.
And for a short historical overview, take a quick look at this National Geographic site:
http://www.nationalgeographic.com/pyramids/timeline.html
You might also like to check out this site:
http://homepage.powerup.com.au/~ancient/chron.htm

Mike,

Last year I sent an email to Mr Weinland pointing out that his beliefs contradict Egyptian history. All I received was an automatic response saying that emails are no longer welcome. In one sense, the issue is relatively simple. If Mr Weinland is right in asserting that the creation of the first man in around 3990 BC is a literal historical fact, and that the world-wide devastation of a universal Flood as described in Genesis is also literal historical fact, the continuity of Egyptian history is simply impossible. Both positions can’t be true.

The implications of accepting Mr Weinland’s assertions are bigger than I first thought. We have to reject not only Egyptian history, but also the early history of all civilizations on earth whose records go back to 2334BC, e.g. that of Mesopotamia – they would all be wrong as well, for they reveal no disruption due to a Flood around 2334 BC. Nor is there the slightest historical evidence that non-Egyptians, in the form of the descendants of Ham, re-populated Egypt sometime after the Flood of 2334 BC, as Genesis 10:6 suggests. Not only that, but, as Truthseeker rightly implies, we would also have to reject the vast accumulation of prehistoric archaeological evidence for tens of thousands of years (or more) of mankind’s development in prehistoric times (i.e. before writing was developed in the early 4th millennium BC). Indeed, there is so much evidence of prehistoric cultures that I would have to say that the suggestion that the first human being was created around 3990 BC simply cannot be taken seriously.

What I am suggesting is that while there may well have been a universal flood at some stage and while there may well have been creation of humankind at some stage by God, the timings, as literally interpreted by Mr Weinland from Genesis, do not match historical/pre-historical reality.

But Genesis CAN be treated as a poetic epic which creatively tries to capture the awe and majesty of the emergence of mankind on earth – something truly miraculous no matter how you look at it. This doesn’t mean it’s “wrong” – it just means this was how the authors of Genesis saw things in their time. It’s not a matter of THE BIBLE versus Egyptian history, it’s a matter of Mr Weinland’s LITERAL INTERPRETATION OF THE BIBLE versus Egyptian history.

So, what I’m suggesting is that we cannot interpret Genesis as LITERAL history, for that produces results which genuinely conflict with far too many realities external to the Bible. And literal history is surely not what Genesis is predominantly about. The proposition that mankind first appeared on earth 6,000 years ago, is the very foundation on which Mr Weinland bases his timing for the return of Jesus Christ in 2012. I have no doubt that Mr Weinland is genuine in his beliefs, but in the light of all the overwhelming evidence against the notion that mankind first appeared on earth 6,000 years ago, I would suggest that the basis for his end-time beliefs has to be flawed.
on March 4, 2009 at 2:27 am Don

Hi Mal,

I think that you and I could debate Biblical Chronology and Inerrancy of Scripture till the proverbial cows come home! But perhaps this is not really the appropriate forum for that. However, if you’d like to conduct a cordial and friendly debate with me covering areas of common interest, I’m happy to authorise Citizen X to disclose my email address to you, if that’s feasible. You can then decide to contact me direct if you wish.

But my bottom line is that the actual timing of Ron Weinland’s whole end-time scenario is based on the assumption that mankind first appeared on earth 6,000 years ago, and that this simply ignores the abundant evidence of tens (or even hundreds) of thousands of years of human prehistory. Would you claim that all of mankind’s prehistory (i.e. before the invention of writing) can be squeezed into the 1,600 years between Creation of Adam in 4000 BC and the Flood in 2400 BC, in line with the dates given in the revised chronologies you’ve brought to my attention?

There is just one more point relevant to this discussion site which I’d like to put to you. You say, most emphatically, that you KNOW that Jesus Christ is, “coming very soon, according to the timetable of God’s Word, to restore this world back to the way God intended it.” And that: “We are approx at that point in history when the two witnesses can be expected to appear”. If 2012 goes by and Christ has not returned, Ron Weinland would be obliged to concede that his confident interpretation of extensive portions of the Bible (as expounded in great detail in his writings “The Prophesied End Time”, “2008 – God’s Final Witness”, Time Is Running Out”, and “Time Has Run Out”) was a huge mistake. Are you prepared to nominate a farthest point in time for the return of Christ according to the timetable of God’s Word, even if it’s just in terms of, for example, within five years or whatever?
on March 4, 2009 at 8:24 pm Mal

Hi Don

I agree that this would not be the appropriate forum for discussing detailed Biblical chronology. If you wish to authorize Citizen X to disclose your email address for a private exchange with me that would be fine.

But just a few words in response.

There are some Biblical students who believe that all life on earth was literally created around 6000 years ago.

However, my own belief is that with some digging around in Scripture, the words of the Bible can be interpreted so they are not in conflict with archeological finds which are dated from remote ages past.

Firstly, the Bible does not say there was no life on earth before Adam. In fact there is evidence in the Scriptures that give a strong indication that there were beings around before Adam and that God had already brought a judgement (or possibly a number of judgements) on Earth’s inhabitants of prehistory.

It can be noted that in some Bible versions (for example, the King James) Adam and Eve are told to go and REPLENISH the earth (Gen 1:28).

In the first verses of Genesis there are some interesting words in Hebrew which cast light on this subject, but this would be too lengthy to describe in this forum.

The Bible is not primarily about those other inhabitants of the distant past. It is the 7000 year story of Adam’s race – the first Adam who failed, and the last Adam (Jesus Christ) who bought back the failure of the first Adam (in 1Cor 15:45 Jesus is described as the ‘last Adam’).

A careful addition of scriptural timespans from Genesis to Revelation shows a total of 7000 years, the final 1000 years being mentioned 5 times in Revelation.

I believe it is no coincidence that God gave us the 7 day week, which He created as a picture of this 7000 year time span. The 7th day, the Sabbath, representing that final 1000 year period when Jesus Christ will be ruling and reigning to restore the earth and Satan is locked up.

Interestingly, 2Peter 3:8 tells us:-

“But let not this one thing be hidden from you, beloved, that one day with the Lord is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.”

The Bible is to the largest degree a spiritual book. As you keep studying, the more you spiritually see God’s hand on it. God uses various ‘types’ and ‘shadows’ to speak to our spirit.

For example, mankind’s 6000 years of enslavement to Satan, followed by the arrival of the Kingdom of God on earth, is pictured by God’s use of the number 6 in various parts of the Bible. A few examples are:

A Hebrew servant shall serve SIX years and in the seventh he shall go free (Exodus 21:2)

Jesus at the wedding changed SIX water pots of water into wine (John 2:1-10)

After SIX days Jesus took Peter, James and John up into a high mountain and was transfigured before them (Matt 17:1,2)

After SIX days Moses was called up Mt Sinai to be in the presence of God (Exodus 24:13-18)

There were SIX steps leading up to Solomon’s throne (2 Chronicles 9:18)

The time of Christ’s return is also pictured in King Nebuchadnezzar’s dream of the statue (Daniel 2: 31-45), the head down to the feet representing successive empires down through the ages. The stone that comes along and smashes the feet to pieces is Jesus Christ and represents the God of heaven setting up His Kingdom on earth. Most Bible commentators would agree that we are now in the time of the feet.
———————————————————————————————
Regarding your question: Are you prepared to nominate a farthest point in time for the return of Christ according to the timetable of God’s Word, even if it’s just in terms of, for example, within five years or whatever?

Well, I would say from the evidence of Scripture that God is NEVER LATE. For example, Jesus died at Passover, right on schedule and rose again on Firstfruits, right on schedule. The Holy Spirit came at Pentecost, right on schedule. I have little doubt that the return of Christ will similarly occur on one of God’s festivals.

The farthest point in time for Christ’s return could well be linked to the margin of error which has accrued in our calendar system over the past 6000 years, whatever that may be.

Perhaps Ronald Weinland will yet prove to be who he says he is, in which case we are only a little over three years away. But in any case, I am convinced that there will be people alive today who will witness the final events.
on March 4, 2009 at 8:28 pm sojourner

Mal

Three years away?

I think we are 10 days away.

Which raises a point of faith in RW. If you all who believe that the 2nd Trumpet is about to blow with explosions on the coasts, really believe that, then why aren’t you warning people?

March 14 is strike two at least. Let’s see, how many strikes does a prophet get?
on March 8, 2009 at 11:22 am Don

Dear Citizen X,

As mentioned by Mal in his post of March 4, I would be happy for you to disclose my email address to him, so that we may further our private exchange. Is this possible?
on March 8, 2009 at 2:45 pm Bobbi

Because of the 2-day fast we may have a year before the second trumpet sounds. The fast was in hopes that more people could be saved.
on March 9, 2009 at 10:57 pm sojourner

5 days.
on March 10, 2009 at 8:37 am Truthseeker

Mike: In reference to

I agree, and feel that that is why it is so important that the return of Jesus Christ is so necessary. We need to be able to distinguish between fact and fiction, truth and lies, logical reasoning and confused ramblings. Don’s post was a well-constructed addition to the search for truth. You need to do as well as him in constructing your arguement if you want to support your vision of what is true.

I presume you are talking to me. I don’t need to construct my argument in any way because I am not the one doing the calling, it is the Father. I was just trying to answer him the best that I could if he was sincerely seeking. This answer I understand was not complete but if he or anyone read it with the many other postings that I or others who are in the church, who suggested people endlessly to go to the church web-cite they would get the answer they needed and as I said I was tired when I was writing it.
on March 10, 2009 at 9:33 am Truthseeker

sojourner:
Are you talking to your self? I thought this was already discussed and clearly your making up your own stuff. RW never said that the second trumpet would blow at this timeline (the second time). In fact, you and others who don’t even try l never get it so give up and move on.

For others who are trying to understand it is real easy. 2008 was God’s Final Witness and RW knew that the 3 and a half years would start in 2008. He took it if for granted that it would be on a date that would place the return of Christ on Trumpets 2012 as the World Wide Church of God had always assumed or thought. It was not until it was given, that the 50th Truth revealed that the timing was perfect for Pentecost 2012. God allowed this to happen for many reasons mostly discussed on RW site and sermons. Mostly, he was working with the church, and revealing more to us about ourselves and Himself. This may seem lame to mockers but it was very clear for all of us.
on March 10, 2009 at 9:53 am sojourner

He who has ears to hear let him hear.

Truthseeker (sic) said:

He took it if for granted that it would be on a date that would place the return of Christ on Trumpets 2012 as the World Wide Church of God had always assumed or thought.

He took it for granted? Isn’t that presumption? Presumption means “an assumption that is taken for granted.”

God did not allow RW to presume. RW presumed.

Of course you can follow RW but he cannot claim to be God’s prophet by any bible definition of the word.
on March 10, 2009 at 10:17 am Truthseeker

carmel,

While, I was giving the benefit of the dought that some certain people was truly seeking and in rememberence of my own journey, I tried to write them. For some it might seem Think-Differently is ridged but the point has been given many times and yet people still don’t get it.

Don,
I think you have your answer, so I think there is not more that I can say but what I know for Truth is that the Bible is the word of God 100% and perfect in every way. The Bible is not a history book and yet it is 100% True. God leave many pieces out and for a reason, for now. But man knows not the power or mind of God or the Truth, unless it comes from God. Our mind is not His mind.

I am not a PHD is Egyptian History but I wouldn’t say I am uneducated. You are taking what was told to you as Truth and yet you were not there when you believe these things that happened and yet there is no scientist who can explain how the pyramids were created as well as many, many unsolved mysteries. I speculate that there was many things that happened that is not given and not given for a reason. My Truth came from the Bible, completely. When, I proved church doctrine with the Bible, the Truths came to me. Rw is the only one who knew those truths. The Spirit of God led me first with the understanding and confidence in his word. Before, I denied the Bible.

This 6,000 year counting is not how RW got to 2012. We can estimate 6000 years according to God’s plan and understand the meaning of God 7000 year plan but the timing was given by God to RW as it was given to me and every one else called. It was just given to Him much more specifically as he leads the Church under Christ. Even, Mr Armstrong knew what time he lived in, specifics are given when necessary. It is too much to explain and it is not my place to do so. I hope you find what you are looking for. Peace.
on March 11, 2009 at 2:16 pm Don

Hi Truthseeker,

You are 100% certain that the Bible is the Word of God, and 100% certain that God has revealed to Mr Weinland that Christ will return in 2012.

If Christ doesn’t return in 2012, will this mean that God, the Bible, and Mr Weinland were all 100% wrong, or just RW? Or what?

Christ’s promised return during the lifetime of his contemporaries is mentioned frequently. But “God’s 7,000 Year Plan”? Not once.
on March 12, 2009 at 12:47 pm Don

Hi Truthseeker,

Of course, my last sentence should have read:

In the Bible, Christ’s promised return during the lifetime of his contemporaries is mentioned frequently. But “God’s 7,000 Year Plan”? Not once.
on March 16, 2009 at 12:50 am sojourner

The day after. No explosions. What happened?
on March 16, 2009 at 10:46 am stephen

If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us for our sins and puryfy us from all unrighteousness. 1 John 1:9.. For all have sinned and fallen short of Gods glory Romans 3:23.. The important thing here is that we part for our own sinnes.. Jesus dies for the purpose of freeing us from death that comes through sin.. Death of the spirit, death of the body, seath of the soul.. Todays world is dead, just as it wages in ages gone. But God is alive in the heard of the true believer, the true follower, the true worshiper. It in only our hearts that can speak to God.. Our mouths are only so we can hear ourselves speak.. But the truth is not always in our mouths. Nor in our hears. God knows your heart, and the heart of man id full of sin. So do not follow a man, or his preaching of Tribulation, for trubulation is bound by God to come. Follow Jesus, the savior of mankind, and his teaching of love, humility, faith, holieness, seeking all things that are in God. His spirit is Gentle, so call upon His spirit for discernment. His love is for everywhere, so go Tell it to the world. If you are a true beliver, you will only concern yourself with what God wants from you.. To serve him with all your heart, mind and spirit. Your body is merely the shadow of who you are. we are all living spirits, and thats what seperates us from the angels. And for as long as you live, seek the truth, seek the secrets in the wordd of God, and seek ye first the Kingdom of God. The Figtree is still growing.. Peace to you all
on March 17, 2009 at 7:46 am Don

In the February Archives of The Weinland Witness, Citizen X posted the following Statement on February 23, 2009:

“The Weinland Witness Statement of Discernment:

If we witness a destructive event of such magnitude that it causes the deaths of tens of thousands of people and the death of a 1/3rd of all plant life before March 15, Ronald Weinland is a true prophet of God and one of the two witnesses spoken of in Revelation. If no such event occurs, he is not.”
on March 18, 2009 at 11:14 am sojourner

Citizen X – Are you prepared to follow through with your statement above?

Given those who are on the fence, it would be good for people to hear from you. You laid out a clear marker and the events did not unfold in that way.

None of us know what alliances need to be untangled and the heartache that this is causing people. I pray for those people still deceived here that there eyes would soon open to the simple truth of the Gospel.
on March 19, 2009 at 9:30 pm carmel

I just have to laugh at this stage, most here are so unspiritual in there understanding…

“who of you who is without sin cast the first stone”

A prophet can be still a prophet, if he has or is speaking out of place, God gives that space I believe. Look at some of the prophets in the Old Testament. RW is not really speaking against God. I believe he has prospectively spoken. To imply your own understanding is wrong. These are events which are really hard to fathom. Look at the time and the amount of information he has brought forth…Something is missing…. We are missing a point of time. Look, how far we have come, the world does not know God, don’t forget that we who are spiritual stand in the breach. Don’t give up. We will know soon. All things will come to our knowledge in time.

I pray that your eyes see what I see.

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